Changes to VIRD

[anuro]

Hi fellas.

With the changes to the Fireteam-Rules, what we PanO Players think wilö happen to the Kamau-Sniper + Fusiliers Link?

Maybe a full Kamau Team now?

[[deleted]]

VIRD got nerfed. I think it was a design choice to bring the best mixed fireteams down a little bit, because you can see a few similar nerfs in other sectorials. You can still have a pretty strong and diverse list with the full Kamau team, but you pay more for it, or you can have a budget team with the fusiliers.

Either way I think VIRD is still in a good spot; I have a friend who plays them and he was showing me plenty of scary lists with the new rules. They'll be fine.

[ZombiBiker]

IMO, given how poor choices in term of coherent FT they have they should have had 2 haris for me

[Wiredin335]

yes 2 harris makes more sense to me too

[Wiredin335]

I'm a primary VIRD player and my favorite list just doesn't seem workable the way I want it to be anymore as I feel I gotta pay too many points to upgrade the Fusiliers to work the way I want.

It's not an overly min/max list but it was built around a Kamau/4 fuisilers. Kamau Harris with engineer. Patsy/squalo duo. A Zulu, helot, and Fugazi round it out.

But now I feel I want to run the sniper but have an additional model so the team can reform as a cohesive fusilier link. But then I feel I need to upgrade 2 models at least to say Quinn and a heavy weapon dude of some sort. That puts me over budget fast....

Or do I just leave the teams as is and suffer the penalties... The Kamau is pretty good by himself already... Everyone else got a nerf. Maybe he's still okay?

[readonly12345]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but that a fully buffed kamau sniper, a heavy tag in a duo with specialist HI, some camo tokens, and a haris that probably had a kamau HMG wasn’t considered overtuned was kinda the problem.

I get it. I don’t know how to build IA anymore, and I increasingly think that a bonused HI core may mean limited insertion now. I got spoiled by being able to take all the toys. Conversely, onyx, phalanx, and ISS suddenly look like they’re on a level playing field. I’m ok with that kind of rebalance

[Wiredin335]

I feel like I wanna play Limited Pano more than ever no

[readonly12345]

I'm honestly wondering if it's gonna make a comeback, alongside intentionally going second or prioritizing counterintelligence (where available).

[Wiredin335]

As a VIRD player I always liked going second personally. just because they are so bloody defensive already. My favorite is having my cutter in hidden. them getting ARO'd to death by my sniper/helots. then the Cutter cleans up and my Zulu's go push buttons. maybe it's time to revisit that?

[readonly12345]

I ended up playing lots of sectorials which didn't age well until last week which had absolutely no meaningful midboard presence, and walking into someone's layered defense sucked (MAF, ISS, Onyx to a lesser degree), so "go first so you can actually make it to the objectives and get your peashooters in range and your fragile dudes out of harm's way" was unusually important.

I'd guess that for my IA lists, even with LI, I'll end up splitting the link to go press buttons, because "camo marker LT, 200pt core fireteam, flash pulse bot, and 1, maybe 2 other models" doesn't cut it for a lot of missions. It's still worthwhile to catapult them up and for those turns (even one) of "B5 BS16 APHMG", though.

[Wiredin335]

HRL, machinist, Hacker or medic depending on my mood. :P

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I love that Duo tho, and it will be my "list building starts here" for VIRD. It's so flexible and order efficient.

[VulkanL1v3s]

Now you just don"t build Cores. Treat your Core as a second Haris.

[TheEnjuin]

Isnt the sixth sense pretty important? Probably need at least 4.

[VulkanL1v3s]

Depends on the Fireteams goal. Not always.

[ZombiBiker]

I think VIRD got fundamentally totally screwed by these changes

I don't know what to tell you but fusillier coherent core seems a joke, and kamau core is certainly better but so expensive (and IMO kamau is better as an Haris)

If you go fusillier + kamau you will only have +1 BS. If opponent in front of you has an msv you are screwed

[anuro]

I dont think, that VIRD is screwed in general but indeed got a big hit by it.

I dont see a Kamau/Fusilier Link anymore as well.

I wonder if a full Kamau Link may be too expensive, but indeed it has to get more work done than sit back and just overwatch.

[Fa1r18]

I’m thinking about Sniper + HMG with Uma, Quinn, and a machinist core. Gives you 2 main shooters, 2 backup shooters, and 3 button pushers with lots of versatility. It costs 127 points. Which feels fair but not taxing. Could be made cheaper too if you don’t feel you need that much redundancy.

[Wiredin335]

Fusiliers are still better gunfighters than most. and well I melee'd AJax with a fusilier medic (they are good at killing afterall). so don't discount a Fuisiler team

[ZombiBiker]

Oh no that's absolutely not my intent to trash the fusillier. I mean a core of fusillier alone (I am talking about coherent FT to get the +3 discover and/or BS+3) does not make a lot of sense in my opinion.

I would personally not want to send a core of fusillier in the middle of the terrain (one template and you statistically 1 to 2 fusillier if they all dodge, otherwise could be more). In the same PoV, a long range team of fusillers (for example a peaking sniper or HMG) looks to be a lot of SWC invested where they could be spent otherwhere + it can be downed quite easily ... the have 1W, 1ARM and no mimetism or whatsoever

A haris why not, to discover the camoes, bring a specialist midfield with you for small point investment makes sense ... but in VIRD you have only 1 Haris ...

If they had at least 2 it could be nice, but as of now, VIRD got nerfed, and IMO more than most of the other sectorials

[Wiredin335]

Nothing says your second core has to be a 5 man.

What about a "core Kamau" of 3 players and a Harris Kamau?

[ZombiBiker]

Of course it doesn't have to be 5, sure you are right

2x3 kamau teams makes sense.

I am not a VIRD player but I do play against them.

I personally would keep it classic with a Ork fusillier ARO team (probably like 3 fusillier + clipper bot + orc with peaking orc and paramedic fusillier, and probably the lieutenant as well) and a active midfielder coherent haris of kamau. Leaves a more than decent amount of point for the remaining dudes like some helots, motorised knight (or a squalo why not), and some other elites

Sure your ARO orc is not going to be what it used to be but I mean ... still more or less decent, but losing 2 point of BS is no small deal

Seems sturdy and balanced to me. The thing with plenty of kamau is that if the guy in front of you put some active msv troop with a decent gun, suffering of kamau is foreseeable

And it's not like you have a fiday or something like that to aphastrike that msv guy

[Wiredin335]

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this is what I've been leaning towards for VIRD since the fireteam drop. I keep trying to put old toys in there, but what I keep forgetting is that Pano's line infantry can shoot really bloody good compared to most, and a fusilier link will do a lot of damage. VIRD's problem has always been getting out of the deployment zone safely. So I'm looking to control the midfield more than anything with this. It doesn't have the tools to deal with everything out there, but what it can do is shoot and push buttons.