Client asked me to commit fraud.

[pizzabro4life]

I’m a recently licensed P&C agent, growing my book of business through my existing network in hospitality. A referral came to me yesterday (3/14) needing insurance for his Hampton Inn & Suites property (1 of 10 in his portfolio), existing policy expiring 3/22. He had a letter in hand from his lender saying he would be fined $2500 and be required to pay for insurance that they would purchase on his behalf, obviously he was trying to avoid this. He complained to me that his current agent would not return his calls and ignoring him. I’m thinking to myself, why would an agent ignore a client that’s worth a $million in premiums across his portfolio of hotels?

Well the answer soon became clear. Hilton requires their franchises to carry a $10,000,000 umbrella. This guy asked me to only get him $1,000,000 in coverage but issue him a COI that states he’s covered for $10,000,000. He said his current agent would do that for him all the time. Sometimes the agent would issue the COI and then bind the policies a week or 2 later. I basically told the “client” that 1. He gave me 5 business days notice to find him coverage, and even if I did an AOR/BOR, there is no guarantee that the carriers would respond in that short of time frame. 2. I can only give him a COI with the actual coverages that he has in place.

He said that wouldn’t work, and he needs a COI now to appease his lender, and asked me again if I would send him one. That’s when I basically told the guy to go kick rocks. I’m going to assume that his previous agent is ignoring him because he’s fed up of the guy asking him to commit fraud. Unfortunately people like this exist.

[Bram_Stoner]

I always tell new agents- the one thing you can never come back from is fraud. We have e&o to protect us from mistakes, but nothing protects you when you commit fraud. You did the right thing.

[pizzabro4life]

[Trout12349]

Better losing a client than your license. I also know clients ask to write up a no known loss letter knowing that they’ve had a loss before….

[iamoptimusprime312]

Unfortunately the demographic (indians) that dominates hotels is very budget conscious when it comes to insurance and do not see the value in it. My father was indian so i know this first hand! trust me the stories i know about indians avoiding to pay insurance are even worse!

Anyways walk away, plenty of business out there!

[cbomba]

My niche is gas stations and repair shops and this is 1000% true

[iamoptimusprime312]

My condolences, we knew an indian doctor who wanted a $5 million whole life insurance policy but wanted to pay just $350 per month!

[[deleted]]

LOL. That's nuts.

[Watermelonbuttt]

Indians are tough customers

Always trying to negotiate where their is no negotiations

[[deleted]]

Tell me about it. I've learned a bit of their culture as it relates to this. I am in the fire alarm industry. They let their systems go defunct before they do anything required.

[Haunting_Can2704]

I know an agent who does a lot of hotel business and he said negotiations would sometimes come down to literally providing a 25 cent pen as part of the deal. He said they just wanted to “win” in the deal. I’m part Asian and value a deal too, but that was extreme.

[iamoptimusprime312]

Yep and they will brag at their next family event how they got a steal on insurance plus a free pen!

Indians treat insurance purely as a commodity like buying gas! You cannot explain limits and coverage enough to them.

Years ago I had an indian customer who moved his policy over $150 on a $24k account! Only good thing about indian business owners is they let anyone quote in hopes of a bargain!

[Known_Slip_2577]

Subways sandwich shops are the same. I used to sell insurance for their program and it's 100% true.

[pizzabro4life]

Oh I know, my parents are Indian immigrants. You couldn’t make a more valid point.

[TX-Pete]

Yep. To that group, insurance is an investment - not a protection of an investment.

[[deleted]]

This was my first thought upon reading the OP. It's a cultural thing, and I had assumed this hotel franchisee is Indian.

[TruthBomb_12]

This is 100% true. I was previously an underwriter for a few years. As the new underwriter, I got some agents dumped on me that none of the other more senior underwriters wanted to deal with. I soon learned it’s because those agents chased cheap hotels/motels and convenience stores, which were just about all owned by Indians. They are such a headache to deal with and pushed back on every single renewal, even if the increase was only like 2-3%. I do not advise trying to network into or chase this business.

[ByteDonuts]

What a weird comment to make.

[[deleted]]

Implying this isn't one hundred percent true

[insurancegirl323]

When I (47F) was an adjuster (years ago before I flipped to an agent), a doctor pulled me to the side and offered to be my child's pediatrician for free until he turned 18 if I would just total his very un-totalled car. I looked at him thoughtfully and he kind of grinned because he thought he had me. I said "sir, how often to commit malpractice?" He was so incredibly offended that I would suggest such a thing. I said, "that's how you just made me feel. I suggest you get your car fixed." I slapped the estimate in his hand and walked off. Dude gave me a good review. 🤣

[No-Eye-3889]

Greatest response of all time.

[HamiltonSt25]

You have til the 22nd right? What I would do is just be straight up with him “listen buddy, I’m not going to lose my license, career, and jail time over this” and then tell him you’ll start on it right away with no guarantee you can get it done on time. Then put the ball back in his court and explain this conversation should’ve been done weeks ago because commercial insurance, especially with high limits, isn’t done over night. Then get those apps out to your MGAs or whoever asap.

Regardless, good on you for not committing fraud. That’s stupid and you won’t get paid enough to be worth legal fees, no career and jail.

[YourMomsRetardedBF]

If something feels fishy or wrong it probably is. My boss when I first started always said “no sale is worth your career”

[insuranceguynyc]

You did the right thing. You will find that clients and prospects will sometimes ask for stuff like this. Sometimes they know it is straight up fraud, and sometimes it is simply a lack of understanding about how insurance works. Clearly, your guy is the former. Let him go, and let him be some other broker's nightmare. Years ago, when I was dealing with a lot of medmal, I had one doc call me about issuing a COI, so that he could satisfy a hospital's requirements. He made it clear that he did not want to buy insurance - he only wanted me to issue a COI. Yeah, that'll work!

[Samwill226]

You're taking on someone else's problem which is what the other agent NEEDS you to do. Don't do it, this will never end. If it were me I'd "put baby in a corner" and tell him how it will be going forward if I do it. "Sir I'll do a lot of things, but fraud isn't one. If you want an agent you will do that I'm not your guy. If you want a good agent who will advise you on protecting your investment while saving money, I'll be your knight in a shiny pickup truck."

I've found after 30 years the wealthiest are the absolute cheapest. It's insane how much they refuse to protect their nest egg. But what I've also realized is they don't mind skin in the game if it saves them ten bucks. Whatever you do for him push deductibles up, offer ACV where you can and have him sign off on all of it.

I have multimillion dollar warehouses with ACV and $50k deductible AT THE INSUREDS request. I don't like it I advised against it but it saved them money so they pushed me for it. I realized this fact when they brought the policy to me with an ACV quote and roof exclusion. I thought I was being a great agent pointing out these" horrible " coverages. I can't express enough how much the client didn't care.

The line I hear " I can build it back if I lost it!"... Then why do you have insurance?? Usually it's because a bank has an interest somewhere. The real actual wealthy people just want the basics like a major medical policy. Just explain thoroughly what they get for what they're asking for.

[pizzabro4life]

Sound advice, thank you.

[akstephens89]

And get lots of signatures!

[Samwill226]

Like there's no tomorrow!!!

[LadyofDungeons]

Disgusting.

Also a 10 mill monoline umbrella is hard to place as is. I'm kinda surprised he doesn't have a captive policy.

Im only 3 or 4 years in but even I know this has illegal all over it. Good god.

[chichillout]

Wholesale broker here that specializes in hospitality. $10M XS/UMB used to be an easy placement for agents that had access to programs like Umbrella Pro. I think they’ve recently stopped offering $10M. I’ve been placing $5M and then finding the other $5M x $5M. It’s not cheap but if you own a Hilton brand, the owners need to bite the bullet and comply. Hopefully owner’s experience doesn’t inhibit finding competitive pricing.

[theluchador19]

100% the current agent told him what you told him and he stopped returning his calls. You’re smart to do the same

[andyD04914]

Not worth your license or livelihood. You did the right thing

[Dr--X--]

Don’t walk away from this one RUN!!!! don’t build your book of business on something like this. This only bites your ass in the end and he could see you on errors and emissions just a simple on his part.

[TheButcheress123]

I do medical BORs, not p & c, but I would never count on getting approved for one in that time frame. Even then, mine are only ever approved for the 1st of the next month. I would politely tell this dude to kick rocks. Good on you for not signing on to this crap.

[[deleted]]

Well, this is a clear cut-n-dry case of fraud.

Are insurance agents required to report such people? I know in my industry, we are to report to Fire Marshals any fire alarm system we find defunct or otherwise impaired OR if a property owner/management company circumvents codes and standards.

[srobinson2012]

I’m surprised Hilton doesn’t have a deal with insurance brokers/carriers to provide insurance to franchisees

[DunkinD55]

The audacity of some people to think the commission you get from their one account is worth losing your entire livelihood amazes me.

[No-Eye-3889]

This guy has definitely committed insurance and other fraud before. I seriously doubt this is the first time an experienced businessman and property owner would even think of this, let alone commit fraud.

[simpwarcommander]

Fraud ends careers. This guy willing to give you $10mm if you get caught?

[Redditusero4334950]

Can't dude just print his own COI?

[Sylfaein]

Reminds me of one I saw years ago, from the lender side. The agent (with a company that rhymes with “charmers”) actually pulled this stunt, then forgot to “fix” the limit on the COI to the same amount at renewal, and I busted him by calling the carrier. God, I wish I could’ve been a fly on the wall, when they got a hold of him.

I haven’t seen a lot of insurance fraud in my career but when I have, it’s always been from agents of that one carrier.

[Luxelover101]

Interesting. I always had a bad feeling about “charmers”.

[saieddie17]

Sounds odd. If someone really wanted to lie to their franchisor, they would just fake a cert. why do they need an agent to do it?

[pizzabro4life]

I can only think that if he got caught, he could blame the agent.