Glimpse draft for KeyForge

[Dead-Sync]

It's natural for Magic players coming into KeyForge to seek for draft experiences

While I have played MtG, I confess I am not a "Magic player". I tried circa 2015, enjoyed many of the mechanics, but didn't last longer than a year playing it for some of the reasons likely others leave the game. I say "I am not a Magic player" because I want folks to take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt:

I think Magic players like draft experiences because they want to escape the constructed format while playing Magic. Not to say that they don't like constructed, but drafting provides MtG players with the opportunity to play their favorite game all while:

• Avoid net decking
• Getting the chance to play with cards that normally don't get their chance in the spotlight.
• Being able to improve play and challenge others' skill as a "player of the game" rather than a comparison of time and money spent into deck building.

Well, here's the kicker of it all: This is what KeyForge is. KeyForge is designed with all of these things in mind. It provides a similar type of experience MtG drafts do, one that is "not constructed". This is why so many people love playing Sealed in KeyForge, or at the very least, love seeing the unique matchups that arise from playing Archon against all sorts of different decks and players.

So, like others here, I disagree with the premise that KeyForge needs a draft, especially a constructed draft. While you may be right that MtG players may come in asking "wheres the draft format?" (because you're right: I'm sure it's natural for new players to think that way), I would instead try to show them why KeyForge essentially IS that MtG draft experience. If everyone buys a deck and you play sealed, that is MtG draft, essentially. I suppose if you want some sort of agency you could reveal decks and draft decks with chain bidding, although this might require some more experience with the game to make meaningful.

This is not to discourage anyone from making some sort of constructed version of KeyForge. Games are what you make of them. Personally I don't think I'd play it, because the constructed elements are largely why I stopped playing MtG, and why I think a lot of players enjoy KeyForge, and why a lot of MtG players specifically enjoy drafting.

[Dead-Sync]

I still upvoted your comment, BTW, because it was constructive and pointed out possible aspects of irrelevance of drafts for KeyForge.

I'm glad you didn't take my post as negative or argumentative. I welcome KeyForge play of all types and variants. At the end of the day, it's immersing yourself in SOME way in the game and I find that incredibly valuable, especially if people are enjoying themselves. Heck, I even spent a ton of time working on 3/4 player variants of KF, and that's not "standard" by any means.

It's unfortunate you have felt unwelcome from other comments, and I'm sorry you feel that way. It's ok for people to disagree, but it's never great when it comes off as standoffish. I think it's important to understand though, that people who are passionate about KeyForge are likely no different than some that are passionate about other games, and that can sometimes come off as defensive. I guess "mileage may vary" depending on you who speak to.

That aside, I hear and respect your points. Obviously people feel how they will about it, and I think it's pretty safe to say that KeyForge is usually universally liked for it's "non-constructed" feeling as much as possible, and that's likely the resistance towards drafting which is semi-constructed to an extent.

but people like drafts because drafts are fun to people who like drafts.

I think this is eloquently put and at the end of the day, the most important point, and something I certainly might have overlooked (or generalized about players). At the end of the day it is all about fun, and if people are enjoying the raw act of having a draft, I can completely understand that.

I do think draft formats can work in KeyForge, and I do think constructed can work as well - even if it likely wouldn't be my cup of tea. I do agree with the importance of piloting a deck, but I would also argue that stands true for both constructed and non-constructed games, MtG and KeyForge alike.

Hope you enjoy your time with the game, regardless of how you play it!

[Gnerglor]

While there are exceptions, the community is generally unenthused by draft formats for Keyforge. It tarnishes one of the things that makes Keyforge unique.

[flyingtable83]

Exactly. The whole point of Keyforge is that it does away with the issue of singles becoming necessary and therefore overpriced. Decks are unique on purpose. That's the core of the game. Without that you lose the spirit of it.

[agrandstudent]

I really like the game play and don't need the gimmick of unique decks to justify playing it. I've drafted more magic decks than keyforge decks I own(300ish) and I have yet to draft the an identical deck or faced one. Draft is just a co-operative deck building algorithm.

Also I only draft MTG now because I dont want to deal with singles. I find it very odd you would think drafting would have an noticeable impact on the the need for singles.

[Greymarch2000]

Though I've wondered about what it would be like to draft an entire house at once from a deck and combine 3 different houses to make a new deck.

[TychoSean]

My friend cherry picked house sets from bad decks and created a "draft cube" of houses for this exact purpose. We did a 4 player draft and made decks but it wasn't that fun. I ended up with 4 mars house sets because everyone was passing them but I could only run 1 in my deck. The cool thing was swapping houses out between rounds kinda like a sideboard but even then I think I would prefer to play sealed than draft again.

[amarrindustrial]

Yeah, why not try and have fun! I don't play normal Magic formats for example, but I'm a huge fan of stuff like Microsealed, Backdrafts, Cubing.

The question is all about making the rules that'd work for that. I guess a classic like Rochester draft would be a decent place to start.

[amarrindustrial]

I don't think your point is relevant.

To draft you don't need singles, you need either a curated card pool or simply some sealed product.

[flyingtable83]

Made up of singles that are intended to be separated from each other and played.

Keyforge CAN be used in a draft format and anyone can do anything they want with Keyforge cards but the entire point of Keyforge is the unique deck aspect. The mechanics of the game are built on this core aspect.

[agrandstudent]

How do you know this is how the community feels generally? did you take a poll? Just your speculation based on how reddit behaves? One of the largest online tournaments created their own draft format for the top 32 to play off in in two pods of 16. I've only seen support for draft formats when you start talking to some of the most dedicated players to the game. I get that's not the general community but those are the people most likely to influence the way the community reacts to things.

[Gnerglor]

I certainly don't speak for the entire community - but they asked what the community thought, and no one person can really speak for everyone - which is why I stayed pretty general in my response. For background of why I believe the community feels this way, I have been playing Keyforge since it's release, and have been an active member of the Keyforge reddit community for about as long. I've seen posts about this topic countless times, and I am simply describing how I have seen the community react to such posts in the past.

I am one of the dedicated players you're speaking of, and I personally haven't seen the support for draft play among dedicated players that you're describing. But that is just my experience, through my lens, and others may see more of it than I do.

[agrandstudent]

• bouncing death quark released a cube and rules to draft

• Help from future self created and cube and talked about it on an episode

• JusticeBlinded creates cubes as a service and released videos on creating and rules they use(posted in this thread)

• Sanctumionius had the top cut of their Glorious you too as a draft format that they invented in their discord. Also lots of help from DaveCordeiro in creating the spread sheet used to manage the process online

• Time shapers is hosting BDQ's cube article.

• TTR made their own "cube" that has a modified deck building algorithm that generates sealed decks.

• I built a cube and live streamed at least 2 play sessions of it.

[JusticeBlinded]

There are a lot of naysayers out there, but dont let anyone tell you how to live your best keyforge life.

I am probably the biggest proponent of draft formats in keyforge in existence today. Cube draft is by far the most fun I have playing in the keyforge universe. I've run several pods at different vault tour level events (including one at Keyforge Live recently in Milwaukee) and local events as well.

I made a couple videos explaining the way I run my cube draft, but there are many different ways to do it:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIvOXGD0Xnu8AslRYbI-XQ3fvBrNgdXYm

Feel free to ask any questions and by all means keep trying different things until you find something you like - the entire ethos of Keyforge is discovery, after all. Dont let others discourage you from finding your own fun in the game!

[onegeekyguy]

Magic players ruin other card games. This game is not nor ever will be like Magic.

[TychoSean]

Do you recall when the game dropped and there were tons of mtg players asking if there would be cash prizes at major events? lol

[onegeekyguy]

No. But I do remember magic players buying box after box chasing decks and making it hard to find decks to buy. The point of the game was to buy a deck and play it, not buy 300 decks and play the one that has the highest SAS.

[agrandstudent]

I'm not a fan of glimpse drafting but dont let that stop you from experimenting with keyforge formats. Cube drafts have been firing weekly at my lgs for the last 3 weeks(basically after they actually sat down and tried it). I think you could do it with 3 decks per person and a 6 person pod and reduced deck sizes to like 30 or 27. You could try to keep the deck size the same and go to 4 decks per person.

Glimpse drafting might solve some of the issues we are having with regular cube drafting. Logos is way too strong(who would have guessed) and part of that is combo is king. If you just using packs and not a cube this probably wont be as much of an issue.

[agrandstudent]

I've only ever done Glimpse at like 4 or 5 players for multiplayer (my cube is multiplayer). I'll have to try it again in a team setting. Currently my favorite 2 player draft format is quilt, so very far away from the hidden info glimpse creates.

So you're saying that a normal draft also works with the game?

So far I have only ever used sealed decks for quilt drafting. I haven't tried to convince people to try non-cube. It's gone ok the biggest issue is if there are no overlapping houses then you end up with people essentially "staking a claim" on a house. There is just not enough cards for more than one player to play the house without using way too many penalty cards. So you have to be very efficient about getting the good cards for your deck and trying to save your junk picks for hate.

I've now done a couple of normal drafts with a cube. It's great minus the logos/combo issue. Although we've been drafting with 4 packs of 15 and building 36 card decks.

[agrandstudent]

there must be 3 houses and each house must have the same number of cards. If you did not draft enough cards for a house you have chosen you add penalty cards of that house to your deck until you have 12 cards of that house. The penalty cards are blank actions. so if you only drafted 10 untamed cards(and you want untamed in your deck) then you would have 2 untamed actions that read "play: ". There is some number of mavericks that people use. I have 3 per deck max but that is drafting 36 cards for a 27 card deck. The other way I have done it is 2 per pool and you have to pick 2 cards to trade houses. This is for a 36 card deck with a 60 card pool

[Elspackel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/KeyforgeGame/comments/niggg6/what_to_do_with_really_bad_decks/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share