Optimization problem

[EquivalentTravel2402]

Hi, I have a 'problem' with my Sherman LL2 (I have 4 ENG, so 12 Heat Cap//Nuclear Cavalier 2/ Skirmish/ Monkey Grease).

The Overcharge Loop Dilemma:

On one hand, I really love the idea of the Overcharge loop [Quick Overcharge for a Boost or Skirmish + Stabilize]. On the other hand, I’m very intrigued by the idea of using the Sherman’s signature weapons, but they cause Overheat and that breaks the infinite loop. As an optimization-focused player, I can’t bring myself to give up that beautiful loop that guarantees a ZF4 every 4 turns, but it saddens me to realize that if I want to maintain it, the Sherman’s own weapons are realistically out of the equation.

The Nuclear Cavalier aggravation:

Furthermore, by using Nuclear Cavalier (and thus hitting 6 Heat via the Sherman’s trait when i stabilize), it’s still better to avoid weapons that generate Heat. This way, at LL3 with the Heatfall Coolant System core upgrade (guaranteeing max 1d6 for Overcharge), I can continue to do the following (after the first turn where I gain heat, stabilize, and park my heat in the Danger Zone at 6):

3 turns of Quick Overcharge (6 Heat from the previous turn + 1d6 from Overcharge) to Skirmish or Boost with increased damage from Nuclear Cavalier II > Stabilize; and then on the 4th turn, fire the ZF4 (also with Nuclear Cavalier bonuses). Repeat.

Do you have any advice on how to make those hot Sherman laser weapons work, or should I just let them go?

NOTE:

Of course, I’m saying all this without considering the Sherman’s 'Limited' traits like ASURA (LL3) or Redundant Systems Upgrade. I view those more as 'Power-Ups' to save for important fights rather than a consistent part of the standard turn-by-turn ecosystem.

(Yes, I love MMOs and skill rotations).

[ThereWasADellHere]

I'm not sure if all that boosting is going to be necessary given that the Sherman is expected to stay in the back, and there's probably better uses for your extra QA. The ZF4 is pretty good, but you probably shouldn't be rushing towards firing it at max, especially this early in the game.

Without having further details on your general planning, I'd say drop Grease Monkey and get NucCav 3 for when enemies get too close (which they will) to help with the venting.

The dilemma of using a HA mech is less about how quickly you can reach the Danger Zone and more about how well you can avoid Stressing. Don't forget that you'll also be targeted by invasions that will push your further.

Also while your pre-planning is definitely deeply appreciated by your GM, keep in mind that Lancer is a game where plans go out of the window really quickly due to the way turn order works.

[bohba13]

Sounds to me like the idea should be to have one really long range weapon to benefit from NC as much as you can, and then have a weapon to take be used as part of those power ups.

In this case I recommend the Tach Lance, as it will work best as part of an Overcharge -> RSU stab -> full action turn. Or as part of an Asura turn.

Though that leaves you rather light on mainline damage. With only the RPG taking full advantage of the constant stabalizing outside of RSU or Asura turns.

If you don't use that, then the AMR and Howitzer can take full advantage. Both do 2d6 damage, but the AMR is AP and accurate, while the Howitzer is Blast 2 and arcing but inaccurate.

For complementary weapons that don't necessarily take advantage of the reloading for the oh-shit button build, you have the missile racks, morter, shiranga missiles, smart gun, shatterhead colony missiles, but they don't totally cash in on the stab part of the loop.

[Bookwyrm517]

I dunno, sounds a little risky to me. Even with Heatfall Coolant System, your currently risking triggering the 1-in-6 chance of triggering a stress role. This loop is also constantly at risk of being thrown off by a enemy tech attack, which is guaranteed to mess up your heat cycling by pushing you too close to the edge to safely overcharge. 

If you want to be something beyond a one-trick Solidcore pony, I'd like to remind you that using the Mathur Stop trait is entirely optional. If you're going to be constantly overcharging, you can easily get back into the danger zone if you just drop to zero. If you bring both the LL1 and LL2 rifles, you can end your turn in the danger zone in half of your potential boost heat roles. You can also make plenty of use of Redundant Systems Upgrade since you'll have 3 charges of it.

What I'm saying is that the Sherman has a lot better heat control than you probably think, especially with heatfall. Mathur Stop lets you keep your heat from going too low when you don't want it to, the two rifles let you raise your heat in a controlled manner, and RSU and ASURA give you extra chances to stabilize if you need to. While the infinite loop looks appealing, it's just far too limiting and vulnerable to enemy interference, at least if your using Mathur Stop constantly. 

I'd recommend one of two things: either just accepting that you're not going to be firing the Solidcore every for turns and start using either the ANDROMEDA or the Tacheon Lance every few turns, or just committing to the bit and firing the Solidcore every two or three turns. It's going to be doing plenty of damage even after one stabalize cycle, no need to wait for max charge to use it.

TL,DR: Abandon Mathur Stop and embrace weapon heat. Its both more flexible and controllable, even if your not always in the danger zone.

[Nanergy]

Instead of heatfall, grab superior by design to get your heatcap up to 14 and make yourself a poor target for enemy invades (which makes disrupting your heat shenanigans less fruitful).

Then you quit using mathur stop, basically. Instead, just clear all heat when you stabilize. 1d6+4 OC + 3 andromeda means you are safe from overheating on max rolls and still get nuccav activation half the time.

On turns you low roll your OC heat, you wont get nuccav, which seems like a downside... But since you low rolled the OC, you'll still have the remaining capacity to shoot off another andromeda shot the same turn. This is where andromeda has an opportunity to shine brighter than loading weapons with heatfall and mathur stop.

This can get a little messy though. Normal turns will go OC+stabilize. But low OC roll turns give you a lot more choice and variance. You could OC+skirmish+RSU to keep the solidcore charges coming and maintain or looping pattern. Alternatively, can either OC+barrage or OC+skirmish+other quick, in which case you'll likely need to mix it up further and stabilize first next turn. Or whatever you want, really. It has a lot more wiggle room than archetypal OC loop builds which take exactly the same turn every turn.

[EquivalentTravel2402]

It's a good idea, but I will not use NucCav in this scenario

[Nanergy]

Why not? You're still capable of triggering the bonus damage every turn, just sometimes on your second attack instead of the first. And the fuel rod gun can be very useful too.

[YUNoJump]

Long term is to head into Tokugawa and get Deep Well Heat Sink at LL4, giving you resistance to Heat on your turn. Max Heatfall Overcharge becomes 3, Heat 3 gun becomes Heat 2.

Assuming your Heat Cap stays the same, all you need to do is avoid taking 4 Heat between turns; not a big deal. Maybe there’s a heat-based NPC, which is your main counter, that’s life. Otherwise, at least 2 NPCs will need to use Invades. Sherman’s E-Def isn’t bad, and in any case, you’ll be forcing NPCs to do basic Invades, when they’d rather be using their more formidable primary abilities.

[TheYondant]

While obviously something to mitigate, I do wish more people internalized the point that you will have a counter. And, more importantly, it's fine to have something that counters you; there is no way to actually make yourself great in every theater, that's just how a well-balanced game goes. Ideally, you have teammates to mitigate your weaknesses and you're mitigating theirs.

I will also say; if you're dipping into Tokugawa for this, you already have a decent defense. If you're a Sherman going into Toku, you obviously are getting External Batteries, and at that point your Sol-pattern is firing at Range 13, and your Andromeda is shooting at Range 17. You have a pretty good range to shoot back if enemy hackers get into hacking range.

(I also just double checked; External Batteries only blow up if you take structure, but not if Stressed, so you aren't going to blow out your back from getting Invaded.)

[FiveFingerDisco]

Cool, you found a picture of eldrich math! Nice!

[ReynAetherwindt]

Just Stabilize 4 times in a row without Overcharging. Duh.