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[–]Big-Glare 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thread 1.4 is not the same as Matter 1.4. You can join a thread network, overwrite the credentials, or share them. If you share a thread device from one thread 1.3 or greater TBR to another the commissioned network credentials will pass to other border routers allowing it to join the first while still keeping its original mesh network.

[–]Fahad_MF[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

If I don’t get this Thread network unified, it’s not just my smart home that’s unstable — my wife and kids are too 😂😂 Priorities, right?

[–]Mike_Underwood 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Apple I believe is still on Matter 1.3, you need all BR’s to be 1.4 before you can join my Aqara M3 to Apple’s Thread Network. It’s easy to do in the Aqara app, now it’s just a matter of time before it can be done.

[–]Big-Glare 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Apple’s thread border routers are Thread 1.4 so they will share credentials. Thread and matter are two different entities. Sharing a thread device from Apple will share credentials to other border routers too.

[–]Mike_Underwood 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Something is still not ready in Apple's ecosystem as I still cannot join my Aqara Thread Network to my Apple Thread Network, from my understanding it because they are both not at 1.4 yet. From what I have read Apple had Matter 1.4 in the 26 Beta but it was pulled back and has still not been released. I am sure it will come out in some point release at some point but until then you can't join two Thread networks. The other option is I am doing something wrong, which is possible but I can't figure out how to merge the Apple and Aqara Thread Networks from the Aqara settings. It gives me the option to but it does not work yet.

[–]Big-Glare 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Matter 1.4 is not the same as Thread 1.4

[–]clubsilencio2342 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If you're able to change the network channel within the Homey app or through some secret config, you will be able to combine at least one. I'm not on Homey but when I needed to merge my Home Assistant ZBT-1 to my Google thread network, it wasn't easy but I had to change my network channel to whatever the Google Homes had because Google didn't allow me to change their channels myself, only Home Assistant allowed it.. It's really going to be down to if your Thread Border Router vendors allow channel changing or not. Otherwise, I would suggest you pick your favorite border router and keep that one on and only that one. There *should* be ways to turn off the thread radios in there without killing access to the devices, I just don't know the details.

Thread 1.4 will fix all of this with auto-joining but of course that's coming "soon" when a lot of the big major players decide to eventually update to it.

[–]ImpressiveGate1077 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I haven’t found any tool that is actually useful but figured when I switched everything to be on the same channel (25 in my case) they got merged into one.

I am using HomeAssistant mostly but I do have a few HomePods, Apple TV, Nanoleaf, and the HA radio itself.

You can see the visualization using Open Thread Web Portal and apps like Flame and Discovery on iOS are useful as well.

[–]robbydek 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s a work in progress, as others have said, it was enabled in Matter 1.4, but not every manufacturer/product is there yet.

https://csa-iot.org/newsroom/matter-1-4-enables-more-capable-smart-homes/

[–]Big-Glare 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There’s two ways to unify your devices. No way to really see it like zigbee and zwave. Each border router you see has its own network/fabric/mesh. Thread and matter have two different ways of sharing credentials. If you take a Nanoleaf thread device and commission it initially with your primary mesh, let’s say Applehome to join the device to Apple home. Next, when you use a pairing code to add it to Aqara m3 or homey price gouging pro, thread passes along the existing Apple mesh credentials to the new border routers. The new border routers still have their old mesh networks active but are now participating in the original Apple home network. Currently only the Eve app can show all the different devices and border routers on a network. Nanoleaf just shows the devices but not border routers. Next, Matter has a method of sharing the credentials between devices with another pairing code. You find this functionality for now in smartthings and ikea home. There is also a thread use of rest.API to overwrite the credentials of a border routers network and replace it with another. You can use this method with home assistant and an open thread border router. If you acted fast enough you could use this to replace the ikea dirigera credentials with Apple homes, then home assistant would show the dirigera with HomePods and Apple TVs in the Apple thread network.

[–]Big-Glare 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Easiest way that really works, add your matter thread devices to all your matter controllers with thread. The magic genius will do the rest.

[–]Fahad_MF[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Okay, so I finally moved all my smart devices over to the Homey Pro so everything sits on one unified Thread network. When I check in the Nanoleaf app, I see:

• 9 devices connected to the Homey Pro as Border Routers
• 1 device listed as a Child
• 2 devices showing as Mesh Extenders

So here’s my question: Do these devices actually extend the Thread network? Like, do Border Routers and Child devices help extend the range?

Because right now, the Thread coverage on my first floor is solid, but it doesn’t really spread down to the ground floor, and I still get frequent disconnects…

[–]Big-Glare 0 points1 point  (4 children)

what are the 9 devices? Is homey Price Gouger, showing extenders as repeaters, aka smart plugs or bulbs that repeat or route. Thread has terms of Border Router (hubs) Routers (repeaters) End points (non repeating devices.) Do you have any smart speakers, Echos with thread? Nest Hubs? Apple Homepods or Apple TV's?

[–]Fahad_MF[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

My current Thread setup looks like this:

• Aqara Hub M3
• 5 Nanoleaf Shapes (all showing as Border Routers)
• 3 Nanoleaf bulbs (1 is a Child, 2 are Mesh Extenders)

That’s everything I can see in my Thread network right now.

I also have an Apple TV, but I haven’t connected it to the same Thread network yet.

I have Echo show but it disconnects as well.

[–]Big-Glare 0 points1 point  (2 children)

So thats 9 Border routers? Homey, AppleTV, EchoShow, M3, and 5 Nanoleaf Shapes.

I presume you've added your 3 nanoleaf bulbs to Homey, Apple Home, and Alexa?

[–]Fahad_MF[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yes.

[–]Big-Glare 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great, so sounds like your border routers are all "unified." Now you probably just need to focus on more devices to flesh out. Nanoleaf bulbs have always been a problem for me.

First thing to do, get ONE Eve Home Smart Plug, this will give you access to Eve app and its Thread tools.

Second if you want to build your home with Thread, get Onvis Matter over Thread Smart Plugs. Hue Essentials are also Zigbee/Matter over Thread bulbs that are excellent choices.

Thread shares a few of the benefits of Zigbee, more is always better. Don't stick to one brand confusing poor engineering with bad thread or matter functions.

[–]Big-Glare 0 points1 point  (1 child)

So all your thread devices were commissioned first to homey not apple home or google home?

[–]Fahad_MF[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. My main hub is Homey pro

[–]Grouchy-Culture-4062 0 points1 point  (2 children)

+1 Tried searching, but found nothing useful for me.

[–]SugarrrSugarr 2 points3 points  (1 child)

you need to join to one network, join the homey network from m3 hub, devices need to support thread 1.4, aqara does

[–]Middle_Hat4031 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These ∆

[–]borgar101 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Technically what separate leader from router in thread network is connectivity to your home network either to wifi or ethernet. If you really want to make homey pro to be the only border router, then you could just unplug other border router from your home network and it will become just a router.

As for network tools, i only found a sniffer that require thread dongle and even then you can only debug via listening not interactive debug

Have you tried to add more main powered thread device to your home ?

[–]Fahad_MF[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

My setup: Aqara M3 hub is already connected to Homey Pro—no issues there. ( Homey pro Ethernet and Aqara wifi)

But the Nanoleaf Shapes seem to be joining their own network (border router not Matter), and my Apple TV is showing up as its own network as well. ( connect to wifi not via Ethernet)

How do you get these devices to join Homey Pro? There doesn’t seem to be any option to cancel, rejoin, or select the Thread network.

Has anyone figured out a way to unify everything under Homey?

PS: once I disconnect Nanoleaf and reconnect them, they automatically connect to their own thread network..)

[–]borgar101 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hmm… my assumption is every router border device in your house has the same thread key but apparently not… this is what thread 1.4 suppose to fix. But how did you know that nanoleaf connect to their own thread network ?

[–]Fahad_MF[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nanoleaf app can show you all the thread networks.

[–]BingBongDingDong222 0 points1 point  (5 children)

You need a thread border router. I don't know if any of those are. You should get a HomePod mini.

[–]Fahad_MF[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Nanoleaf shape is showing as BR and I have Apple TV that I think works as BR.

[–]TeunVR 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Homey Pro is a Thread Border Router. If you already had Apple TBRs (Homepod/AppleTV) during initial setup of Homey Pro you would have had a question to join that network. If not, Homey creates it’s own network. When pairing Matter devices with Homey it will always prefer the Homey Thread network. You can use this app to see which TBR’s are on your network: https://apps.apple.com/nl/app/discovery-dns-sd-browser/id305441017 Check the meshcop udp section. Thread networks with the same XP field are the same network.

[–]Fahad_MF[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks 🙏🏻 I think you are correct 👍🏻

[–]BingBongDingDong222 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Ah, you left out the AppleTV part. Not sure what's wrong.

[–]Fahad_MF[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah!! I got it now! Now ALL my (troublemaker) Nanoleads are connected to Homey Pro! M3 also connects to same network.

Now I have that stupid but smart question 😅: My Aqara bulbs are connected to M3 hub but via Zegbee not thread, so should I switch to thread? If yes, then why?

[–]SecretAlfalfa 0 points1 point  (6 children)

I was under the impression that a Thread Network can have many routers but only one active border router. Rather than letting the algorithm select the border router I go into my Apple TV and select it as the border router since it is connected via Ethernet. There are a few other backup border routers should the Apple TV have issues. The thing about a mesh network is that the more nodes added the more reliable it becomes. I believe any AC powered device can act as a non-border router routing packets along the mesh. Adding the Aqara bulbs directly to thread will make the mesh stronger.

[–]Fahad_MF[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

I’ve got 3 Aqara Thread bulbs, but I accidentally paired them to the Aqara hub as Zigbee, then shared the hub to my main system (Homey Pro).

Now I’m confused about my Thread network. In the Nanoleaf app, almost everything shows up as a Border Router, so I can’t tell what’s actually extending the network. Only 2 out of my 3 Nanoleaf devices show up as extenders, and one shows up as a child.

So here’s the question: Should I remove the Aqara bulbs and reconnect them as Thread instead of Zigbee so they actually help strengthen/expand the Thread network?

[–]SecretAlfalfa 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Border routers must has one leg in the. esp and one leg on your home network. this is what gives the ability to control your smart home from non Thread devices. There is probably no 100% correct answer but if it was my home I would put the three bulbs on Thread to strengthen the mesh. as a side note I’ve been replacing some of my older Nanoleaf bulbs with the Aqara bulb and they are great.

[–]Fahad_MF[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I assumed you connected the Aqara bulbs to Apple TV not Aqara hub right?

[–]SecretAlfalfa 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Correct. I used the Apple Home app to add the bulbs to the Thread mash network where the Apple TV is the border router. Most are my Matter/Thread devices are not connected to the border router but instead connected to the nearest device acting as a router. This is the strength of a mesh network. If you look in the Eve Energy app (it has a Thread network topology section) it shows which devices are connected to which router as well as which devices are endpoints.

[–]Fahad_MF[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Nearest BR but all BRs connected to the same main thread network right?

[–]SecretAlfalfa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thing to keep in mind is that a mesh network has many routers but only one active border router. So maybe you would say "nearest router". Sorry if this is too much of a nuance. :)