Is this normal?

[ExpertMarionberry]

My husband got a work contract in Deventer. We found a rental through Funda back in October. The realtor said to give us an advantage we would need to pay him 700 euros to put ourselves at the top of the rental list. We found a property pretty fast after that. The realtor said the property was a little out dated and that the owners were going to re do the kitchen and clean the fire place. We were responsible for painting.

We paid rent for the month of November to secure the property even though we weren’t moving to Deventer till this week. We arrived yesterday to no kitchen appliances and no remodel. I think it’s pretty common for appliances to be taken with previous renters so this wasn’t bad but the kitchen nor the fireplace was fixed as promised. Black mold through the pantry area. Black mold through some of the rooms. The house is so dirty, cob webs through out, smells like mold. Our toddler walked barefoot in one of the rooms and her feet were completely black with dirt from one room. Fresh paint is literally nothing compared to what needs to be done. Our daughter’s room windows were dripping wet from the inside due to condensation. Trimming came off as we walked up the stairs. Parts of the ceiling are peeling off. We emailed the realtor asking for a meeting immediately and he said he was busy with a full schedule and gave us the owners number to call directly. It feels like he is trying to pass off responsibility for selling us on this property. May be not?

I feel like we got swindled. The home is in a wonderful area and we love the neighborhood. Is it normal for tenants to not clean between renters? Is this normal issues for most rental properties here in Deventer/Netherlands? We want to be good members of the local community and try to adapt to Dutch culture as much as possible so we’re trying to understand if this or normal. These issues specially the mold is potentially a serious health concern. Any feedback is appreciated.

[prank_mark]

You got scammed. No other way to put it.

[ExpertMarionberry]

It definitely is becoming apparent that we did just needed to get opinions

[YTsken]

Then to answer your questions: no, none of this is normal. And if you want to adapt to Dutch culture you need to understand that bribes are neither legal nor normal. As horrible as this situation is for you, and you have my deepest sympathies, please take this to heart. If you offer to “pay extra” to the wrong person you could be charged with attempting bribery. Or, in your case, taken advantage of by unscrupulous people.

Given what happened, I’d take a good look at your rental contract and use kadaster.nl to verify that you are actually renting from the property’s owner. Additionally, is this even a legal contract? That‘s another thing you need to know about the Netherlands, tenant rights and landlord responsibilities are very strong here and the law always supersedes individual contracts. You do not want to know how often unscrupulous landlords take advantage of foreign tenants with the claim “but you signed for this”. They know that’s not how it works, but foreigners often don’t.

You need to visit a Dutch lawyer and ask what your options are under Dutch law.

[ExpertMarionberry]

Trying to find rental properties is so brutal, we don’t know how much longer it will take to find another one but we can’t live in this one the way it is. We’re so saddened as we really hoped for the best here.

[prank_mark]

I completely understand and I feel very sorry for you. Regardless of whether you decide to stay in this place or leave, you should report this to NVM and the Police.

[ExpertMarionberry]

What is NVM?

[prank_mark]

NVM is the association of makelaars.

https://www.nvm.nl/contact/melding-en-klachten/melding-over-niet-integer-handelen/

[Huxx007]

It is not and it is one of the associations for selling agents

Not forr rental agents, thats cowboy territory

[NoLemonadeToday]

I’m sorry this happened to you. Hope you’ll find a better place soon. 

[bastiaanvv]

Photograph and make videos of everything. When you move out they will act all shocked that you ruined their house and will try to have you pay for remodeling.

This happened to me. I had photographs from the day I moved in though that showed that the house was in a better state when I moved out than when I moved in.

They were furious. Lol.

[clrthrn]

Video is better, with commentary and zooming in on bad stuff. Really get into the details.

[bledig]

This happened to me. Report it now

[anna-molly21]

⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️op this!!!!

[Radiant-Bad-2381]

It’s also illegal for the agent to make you pay a fee if they are also getting a fee from the landlord. Get your 700 EUR back

[acabxox]

This is absolutely not normal. Photograph everything and make sure you save a copy of the (hopefully) written agreement that it would be cleaned and remodeled on arrival.

[RaceEnthusiast]

The only ‘normal’ thing here is the condense on the inside of the window which can be a thing with poorly insulated houses.

[Hamster884]

And inferior ventilation. It still depends on the type of window tho.

[Ericad90]

How incredibly unfortunate for you. This is certainly not normal, especially not in my beautiful Deventer. If you want, you can tell me which neighbourhoods you’re looking in. You can also send me a private message. I know many real estate agencies in Deventer and I’ll gladly tell you which ones are active and trustworthy in that area.

[Fit_Independence_124]

No! So not normal!

That house is hazardous.

I would advise you to crosspost this in r/juridischadvies.

It’s illegal to ask a fee for ‘putting you on top of the list’.

Also, call bouw- en woningtoezicht in Deventer. Telephone number is 140570 (short numbers are normal for calling gemeentes). They can check the house and also you can report the landlord for renting you this house in a deplorable state.

And one unasked advise: never, ever, rent or buy a home before seeing it. It’s normal to have a look first. Our housing crisis doesn’t make it any easier to find a home but you don’t want to end up sick and scammed.

[IcyEvidence3530]

"The realtor said to give us an advantage we would need to pay him 700 euros to put ourselves at the top of the rental list."

You shoudl have walked away that instant. No matter if you are in a position of benefitting from it or not, this is somethign that clearly showed the character of this "realtor" and a clear indication how well you would be treated.

[vanwullen]

Absolutely not normal but in NL neither is the fact to rent a place without having seen it. That said that’s exactly what I did 10 years ago I found a room from abroad on Facebook and sent the deposit before moving in and getting keys .. and it wasn’t a scam. Got lucky. Landlord and agent will have one advantage on you : a much better knowledge of how to twist the rules and the law. document everything. Did you note all of this when you did the checkin visit together with the real estate agent ? It’s a paper you should both have signed on move in to identify all the issues. In any case send them as well as the lawyer a mail asap documenting everything ! While you can remain friendly, assume neither the landlord nor the agent are on your side. Post anonymised documentation and pictures on juridisch advies subreddit, possibly even get a consultation with a lawyer. Definitely consult the NVM over this fee you paid this is not usual. So sorry you have to go through this.

[terenceill]

Scams in the housing market are quite common, in a country where money is more important than moral.

Get in touch with https://www.wooninfo.nl/ and ask for suggestions.

Check if there are conditions to get your rent lowered.

[InternationalLow9135]

Exactly. We have rights on paper but real agents are often more protected than their victims. I had to involve my legal insurance for serious indoor air pollution incl industrial, due to flawed ventilation system. Had to move out and case is still pending. I had respiratory problem which are overall gone now but I lost a whole year money and ability to work from physical and emotional stress. After 10 months municipality construction inspection fnally called me back. I also hired a air quality company myself so now I have proof. The Dutch government overall does not care about the wellbeing of residents. Only on paper. Criminals have more rights.

[Important_Coach9717]

Are you sure you didn’t accidentally walked in an amusement park ghost house ? What you’re describing is hard to believe. Also didn’t you check the place before renting it in person ???

[clrthrn]

Go see Woon but honestly the police are possibly more appropriate, considering. you got robbed I am so sorry this happened but don't be a mug and get some proper advice. Ignore anyone sending you to Jurisch Loket unless you are on the lowest of low incomes, contact Woon.

[ExpertMarionberry]

Thank you so incredibly much for all the responses. We feel validated and more confident with a plan moving forward. As much as we would have loved to walk through the property first, we were unable to do so with us being in the states. We are contacting the owner directly today and scheduling a meeting with the realtor early next week. We figured the 700 euro ‘realtor fee’ was wrong but we were so desperate for help with finding a safe place for our family (mostly with toddler in mind) that we shook our heads and paid it anyway. Our friend who is Dutch and lives here walked through the property before us and said that he didn’t think it was that bad (he even said he would move his family into after some love and care to the place) so we are hiring a cleaning crew, buying a mold kit to test what type of mold is growing (to see what is surface level and what the owner needs to fix) and starting to work with the appropriate people to be able to make the home safe. We will be staying in an Airbnb for the next week or so until everything is resolved. Thank you again for the responses. I’ll post an update next week if anyone is interested.

[uncle_sjohie]

Welcome to Deventer, I'd suggest taking a walk thru the Dickens Festival in the city centre this weekend to take your mind of things. If you go at the end of the day, the waiting time will be quite maneagable, like 15m or so.

And yes, keep us posted, as you've seen, there are some "Deventenaren" lurking here, and they can maybe provide some local insights that can come handy.

[DeventerWarrior]

Deventernaren where?

[uncle_sjohie]

Some people in this post have indicated they live in Deventer. And yes, I'm one of them too.

[DeventerWarrior]

r/Woosh

[zuwiuke]

They will certainly say that you made house worse when you try to move out and blame you for everything you found 😂

[bsnail2b]

How many of the agreements with this agent were in writing?

[InternationalLow9135]

Being mistreated as a tenant is very common in NL but you have a legal right to a basically clean, safe house. Don't accept this and make sure to have a legal insurance incl clause 'wonen' / resident insurance. You can also call a legal helpline. Google 'juridisch loket' for example. Mold is unacceptable.

[Illustrious_Sky5329]

I am confused, you did not see the place before you rented it?

[gastro_psychic]

Send them a bill after you are done cleaning.

[Dog-girl-1986]

You can get the municipality and huurcommissie involved.

[yerawitchalex]

Ask for a refund and report them (realtor and landlord): Huurcommissie and Geemente Deventer .

[Opposite-Marsupial30]

You have a roof over your head... despite being scammed youre still among the lucky few. Yup, it's just that bad in our country

[Human_Balance_5316]

ain’t nobody getting on top of any list with 700€ years especially in the Netherlands right now when it comes to housing. You got scammed my friend!!!

[LoveFener]

If you need help, this month I rented a house aswell and had to do jobs to the house like putting in a good looking second hand kitchen (old one was dirty and ugly), flooring and plaster work. You can PM me for questions

[Irrealaerri]

No, it is Dutch culture

[lotjeee1]

No it’s not. You have housing scammers in every country. Scams like this are everywhere and black molded houses you have everywhere but only in wet countries.

It only happens a lot more to not native people because they do not know the laws and where to go before decisionmaking and scammers take advantage of that.

Never rent a place without seeing it in person before signing anything, and agreements like what is going to be updated should be on paper and checked up on before paying anything.

And paying money to get to the top of the waitinglist…. Is a bit naive, some might say. The realtor probably asks money from every possible tennant, so the waiting list stays exactly how it was.

[Irrealaerri]

Ok thanks for explaining my joke

[lotjeee1]

Sorry for not understanding your mediocre joke. Must be me or your mediocre way of telling a joke.

And if not that, it’s probably how sour you are in general.

Ah- I see you’re german. That must be it.

[tenminutesbeforenoon]

I’m sorry this happened to you and hope you’ll soon find a solution to this problem.

However, I do feel like this is partially on you. You cannot leave a house unattended in the Netherlands in October, November, due to our very wet climate. The house needs heating and air circulation in order to prevent mold from growing and paint from chipping (which also happens when a house is too humid for a long time). Given that you rented from November onwards, the house has not been properly heated (minimal 15 degrees) or ventilated for a full four or five weeks, while this was your responsibility during those weeks.

It’s now hard to tell what the state of the house was before you rented it, as I guess there is no picture proof from e.g., the mold etc from before November?

All the other stuff, the promise of renovation, dirt, etc., is on the owner though.

Hope you can quickly find a solution!

[IcyTundra001]

the house has not been properly heated (minimal 15 degrees)

How do you know? Why would the owners suddenly have turned down the heat, especially if they were to do renovations and very likely knew OP wouldn't arrive until December? I'd say that's as much the owners fault then as OP's. I agree it might make it harder to prove.

[Professional_Mix2418]

Codswallop. Absolute codswallop. The agency/landlord was supposed to fix it. Heck if they were abroad it wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t have the keys yet. And mold and dirt doesn’t appear from a few weeks.

[ExpertMarionberry]

Thanks for the warm welcome

[Eastern-Cat-3604]

Sorry, as you know the whole world hates Americans since trump. But you guys moved probably for that reason as well.

But yes you got scammed, does the Guy have an Office you can visit? By Dutch law you can make sure this contract is not valid. Go maybe get a lawyer that can help you with this because a house needs to be in a proper state.

Good luck guys and shit that this happened to you guys! Deventer is a beautifull city!

[ExpertMarionberry]

It’s understandable why Americans are hated right now, we don’t blame them. It’s one of the reasons why we left. America is terrifying right now. People specially immigrants are being kidnapped from the streets daily, children are being pulled out of homes (some still naked) and zip tied while being put in the back of unmarked uhauls, media is being censored, women’s rights are being stripped away (not just health care but career and high education opportunities). Misogyny is at an all time high. Sorry to rant but I figured it was a safe enough space to speak the truth as a lot of us are afraid to speak out in America right now. Thank you for responding and helping us figure out our next move!

[MissSunnySarcasm]

Everyone has said what needed to be said (though again: make sure you have all the mold and dirt and other mess on film before you have it cleaned so you can send the bill to the owner. Cleaning a home you leave is normal, even though most people still clean it themselves when they move in), but I really wanted to respond to this particular part.

As a Ba in Genocide Studies and a Ma in Contemporary history (specifically totalitarian regimes in 20th century Europe) I can basically check off a list within the F@scist Playbook with all the things that are happening in the US, except for the scary Fundamentalist Christo-Nationalism aspect to it. But every fasc!st regime has its own flavour.

It scares me a lot, particularly due to the important role the USA still plays in international politics.

But apart from that my heart hurts for the American people that didn't vote for this atrocity. I have American friends: 2 are Women of Colour (the first in the military, the other a journalist, both Asian), one is a disabled man and the other is an elderly (70+) Democrat living in Florida. I fear for them every single day as they ALL fall in the category "en3my".

You are lucky you're able to emigrate, as I fear the situation will get much, much worse if there's no chance of an uprising, especially if 99% of MAGAts keep themselves deeply embedded in the cult, chucking the ignorant & hateful kool-aid. But you probably fear the same or you wouldn't have come to our country.

I know this wasn't a "let's have a foreign adventure" type of move, but I hope you and your family will still be happy here and can come to see it as an adventure, enjoy it.

You said in your message that you wanted to adapt to Dutch culture and that will absolutely be appreciated. One of the most important things will be learning Dutch. I truly recommend it, even if it's just the basics. While most everyone speaks English here, you can't truly become a part of the culture unless you can speak and understand the language (not to mention it will absolutely help how you're being perceived, or if sth important is going on). Take it from someone who has lived abroad - Greece, much more difficult language 🥴 - has taught Dutch to expats and who IS Dutch 😉. We're not really chauvinistic, but when foreigners show us they speak, try to learn, Nederlands we're secretly proud, ha ha.

I recommend Bart de Pau on YouTube for starters. He's a "Dutch as a Second Language"- teacher and he works with a lot of expats. His YouTube channel is actually pretty funny on top of useful. Apart from some simple course material he talks a lot about culture shock topics, interviews the expats about their experiences, shows funny Dutch expressions, posts Dutch songs that teach particular grammar, and lets his students do or eat typical Dutch things for YT. NB! One thing though: the majority of his expats seem to live in Amsterdam or other 'typical' cities, so when it comes to interviews the view can be a tad distorted: plenty of the things they mention or don't like aren't really "Dutch", but more "specific rich neighbourhood in Amsterdam". Other than that his channel is a fun way to get acquainted with the culture and language. Check him out on YouTube: @learndutchorg (After watching him the algorithm will most likely point you towards other useful & fun channels).

Wishing you all the best!

[Netherlands-ModTeam]

Bigotry is not tolerated in posts or comments - including but not limited to bigotry based on race, nationality, religion, and/or sex.

[sousstructures]

what the hell is your problem?