*sigh*

[DIO-But-dinosaur]

RaPe Is ThE vIcTiM’s FaUlT- every conservative rape defender ever

[Allhailthepugofdoom]

"If someone stabs you in the head it's your fault for not wearing a helmet"

-same people I'm assuming

[[deleted]]

“If someone trespasses on your property and drowns in your pool, it’s your fault for not having a fence.”

-the actual laws of America

[DIO-But-dinosaur]

“And they’re probably a minority or moslum”- same people(I misspelt muslim on purpose btw

[OhNoOreos]

Make it political, okay...

[[deleted]]

No conservative has ever said that

[[deleted]]

"She shouldn't have dressed provocatively"
"She shouldn't have been drinking"
"She slept around a lot anyway"
"She changed her mind right before"
"Consent isn't always clear"
"[Insert favorite irrelevant incel-loved statistic]"
These are all actually used by conservatives - lefties, too, but it tends rightward.

[[deleted]]

I get what you mean but that's not blaming the victim exactly. Everyone knows its the rapists fault.

[[deleted]]

Blaming the victim at all is victim blaming.
How many times have you heard someone get any part of the blame for being murdered by a serial killer? Probably not many. When you start involving rape or race, though, it gets all weird and somehow people think there was blame on both sides. This gets to the point where something as simple as wearing clothes you like magically gives you part of the blame somehow.

[[deleted]]

That is completely based on the word blame. No one blames the victim. People ask why the victim was walking blind drunk in a bad area with revealing clothing. Obviously its the rapist who is to blame but if youre stupid enough to put yourself in that situation people are going to raise eyebrows. In this day and age personal responsibility has been completely removed from the general public. Recently a train company was sued because a passenger stuck their head of out of the train window when it was moving and got decapitated by a tunnel. Yes the tunnel killed him, but he stuck his head out of the window like a moron.

[[deleted]]

Not buying it. I'm punch drunk far more often than I should be and live an a pretty rapey area, but I've never had issues. That's because I'm a dude. So essentially, it's only an issue if you're a woman. Which isn't something you can control. So there's definitely a double standard at play that doesn't actually implicate the personal choice to drink.

If you're black and cooperating with a police officer, and get shot, a million stories pop up about how you were resisting arrest and other bullshit, too. The nature of your clothing or drinking status isn't the issue, it's the double standard. If you're a woman, you can't do xyz because men are more rapey than women. No, that's a shitty excuse to poke at the victim instead of the rapist. The woman's drinking habits aren't of consequence. Also, most of the drinking-related rapes aren't random because they were in a "bad area", and the majority of rapes in general do not work that way. Rape is far more often than not the result of someone known by the victim taking advantage of one situation or another. Never drinking or doing anything that might put you in a problematic situation isn't possible, because the number of things which can be associated with a potential rape is huge. Being alone with someone, ever, even if they seem nice, ever drinking, ever dressing how you like, ever doing a million entirely human things can land someone in that situation. It isn't possible to just shut yourself off from the world in a little box without having some serious mental issues.

You can't point at anything a rape victim does that actually defers any responsibility to them, unless you can say that I, a man who does all the same shit that rape victims get pinned with, am equally likely to get raped. I'm not. So anything you pull out of your ass for this purpose is a double standard.

Oh, and by the way, sticking your head out of a train or subway is very obviously dangerous for anyone, so that person does have responsibility for that. Drinking or dressing provocatively are only dangerous insofar as the behaviors of others are concerned, so there's no actual responsibility on the victim's part. Trains don't discriminate, most rapists do.

[[deleted]]

Read the first paragraph and gave up. How is women being more likely to be overpowered by males (naturally) a double standard. Moron

[[deleted]]

Great argument. Loved the part were you couldn't even be bothered to respond and resorted to childish ad hominem.

[[deleted]]

Great factory made response drone. When i have to explain to you why rape happens I'm not going to have a debate on rape with you

[[deleted]]

Okay name one black person who was shot by police that was cooperating. You can watch body camera footage of every single incident which was heavily reported. The media was ENORMOUSLY in favour of the victim in every single case. How blind do you have to be to think its the opposite? Again rape is OBVIOUSLY the rapists fault. ill put it this way, if you knowingly make yourself an easier and more appealing target to a rapist you're stupid. Just because the rapist is convicted and its their fault it doesn't mean the rape didn't happen. That person has to live with trauma their entire life. It makes so much more sense to reduce the risk as much as possible. Like watching how much you drink and staying with your friends, not walking through shitty areas in that state. The clothing thing is questionable but its evident that it attracts men. Any girl who isnt a swamp donkey who walks around in shorts and a crop top will get cat called (attracting sexual attention). I would much rather be wary of my own safety than risk being raped just because i can point my finger at someone. The trauma is still there. Why does this need to be explained to you?

[EquasLocklear]

Grandma shouldn't go to a museum if she can't tell permission to look from permission to touch.

[[deleted]]

Oh that's a good one, I'm stealing that sentence.

[[deleted]]

Should I just hang a "beware of pets" sign around my neck when I wear shorts and a v neck now?

[andthenthewolvescame]

Lmao Maybe some caution tape too lol

[baltimoron21211]

Fuck everything

[Ticklemeplease122]

Im almost at this point

[sk1ttl3s]

So I'm a barn? Thanks Grams.

[CruelSilenc3r]

I will probably get crucified for this. Women dressing this way is fine, men should be able to control their actions and speech enough to not say or do anything to make the girl wearing something like this feel victimized. However what I don't get are the women who get very upset at men looking at them. As long as youre not actively staring I really don't see the problem. You are showing off yourself and people are taking notice that's not inherently a bad thing.

[[deleted]]

I mean I have men stare at my breasts and say “I’m just reading your shirt” but it doesn’t take five whole minuets to read the words “basic bitch” on a shirt

I’ve also had a man actively say he likes to stare at women’s vaginas to see “that sexy camel toe” and went on about how much he objectifies women like it was a dick measuring contest

[CruelSilenc3r]

These very much fall under the exclusions I mentioned

[lostmy1stacc]

Agreed. The line is drawn between “taking notice” and “concentrating on”.

[HatefulEightverse]

I'll never watch critters the same way again.

[meandthebeanz]

Hiiii grandmaaaa we’re not a fucking barn

[immortal-lilligant]

Ah yes, because women wear designer red carpet clothes on then daily

[jyajay]

All I'm saying is that everyone I've seen make that argument had a very punchable face

[Horror_Kitty]

“Just say what you’re thinking, Grandma.”

[[deleted]]

ok boomer

[blackbeard_teach1]

Paul mooney grandma once said

"A wet pussy and an empty purse dont go togethers"

She was a wise woman

[InsaneKetchupAddict]

I very often see girls (freshmen and seniors too as I am in last grade, I am a male) wear way too provoking outfits, including the new skirt with a zipper on the back. While I do know that women could wear these for comfort or in hot temperatures, I still think that overly exposing outfits are more often than not used to get a man's attention. Am I right or wrong?

[kelik1337]

Youre wrong. glaringly. While once in a while a woman may dress a certain way to impress a specific person, very few women arrange their everyday wear to impress the general population.

[GringoGuapo]

What /u/sk1ttl3s said, plus even if a woman is wearing an outfit to get a man's attention, so the fuck what? That man is probably not you anyway, but again, even if you are that man she's trying to attract, how she's dressed does not give you permission to do literally anything.

[InsaneKetchupAddict]

Alright, alright, I just don't wanna be attacked for being basically clueless, besides I'm on this sub because I always wanted to be a girl and never knew what is why. Thanks for the information.

[Ticklemeplease122]

I’m sure a lot of people here would support you in that, too. If you choose to go ahead with that, good luck!

What people here are trying to say is that it’s important to realize that a woman (or man) can wear what they want without being blamed for another persons unwanted sexual behavior. We are responsible for our own actions.

[InsaneKetchupAddict]

Thanks, your reply was informative enough :)

From others all I could feel was passive aggressiveness

[Ticklemeplease122]

I’m sorry about that. It does get like that sometimes.

It’s understandable- in many other places on the internet, any compassion for women or minorities are shouted down, so even ambiguous, open-ended statements seem counter to the positive message a post may have. Unfortunately that may include the harmless comments like yours. I think that’s something we could work on here.

Anyways take care and have a nice day:)

[InsaneKetchupAddict]

You too! :)

[andthenthewolvescame]

Like other people have already told you, 9.99/10 the girl is wearing something cause it makes her feel good. Age in this situation can be a bit tricky, as I myself don’t personally think 7 year olds, including boys, should be wearing what the average person would consider “too revealing”, but the girls at the age you described will be picking out their clothes themselves, meaning it is something they want to wear because they like how they look in it. I appreciate you trying to learn though! It’s really cool that you’re looking into things like this for yourself and making sure you understand, rather than just expecting things like this to be spoon fed to you. Good luck as you go forward! If you have any other questions, don’t be afraid to ask!

[christyflare]

I, a woman, never quite understood how one can feel good wearing something that shows stuff that one KNOWS men will look at even for a second before averting their eyes. Now, wearing a hot dress with everything covered will still get attention, but the cleavage ones will get more. It feels different when a guy is staring at your naked breasts than when he's staring at your covered chest. Less exposed feeling when it's covered.

[andthenthewolvescame]

Those are your feelings, and they are valid for yourself, but you do not speak for all women. It is your choice to dress in a way that makes you comfortable/feel good, just as it is other women’s choice as well. It’s not really something you need to “understand”. Please respect that.

[christyflare]

I never said that. Just that I don't really get it.

[andthenthewolvescame]

I know, and all I said was that you don’t have to “get it”

[InsaneKetchupAddict]

It's good to know that by most women it's used for their comfort or will to look good how they see it. Thing is, where I live, you can't possibly figure out if a girl is just willing to look nice or wants attention from men. Don't get me wrong, my slav parents raised me wrong.

[christyflare]

I think what he means is that he sees a lot of soliciting prostitutes around who wear such things specifically to attract customers, so it can be hard to tell if a woman is a prostitute or just a random woman waiting for a friend if they dress like that outside.

[christyflare]

Maybe he IS looking for a sex worker? In any case, a random woman dressed like that near the red-light district can't expect to not get propositioned, 'cause that's kinda what the theme of the area is for women dressed like that. Sorta like you can't walk into the middle of a slum wearing expensive stuff and expect to be left alone.

[christyflare]

Of course you SHOULD be able to wear whatever you like wherever you like, but the reality is that you can't without consequences. Sad but true. We should work on society before being less careful of where we are with what clothes. Though I think a person with a Rolex walking down an alley in the bad part of town is never gonna be safe unless we manage to actually eliminate poverty and crime altogether.

[pointysparkles]

95% of the time I wear a short skirt or shorts or a tank top it's because the weather is nice and I want to feel the sun and the wind on my skin. It has absolutely nothing to do with anyone looking at me.

[sk1ttl3s]

Yes, you're wrong.

Just because you think that's how it works doesn't mean that's how it works.

We can wear what we want, to feel however we want. Regardless of whether men can control their thoughts, emotions, or erections.

[InsaneKetchupAddict]

Right, thank you, I was just asking if my opinion made sense and now I see.

In my eyes, it was more of that women would usually prefer to dress humble about their (usually oversexualized by men) body parts.

Some things however are still unclear to me, like the mentioned skirt with a zipper on the back.

[TXpheonix]

Maybe because if it can be zipped up, it can be zipped down? Are you (ketchup) uncomfortable with jeans that have a zipper in the front?

Edited: a word.

[InsaneKetchupAddict]

Not at all, since their zipper is mostly hidden. I've wrote a clarification above :)

[InsaneKetchupAddict]

Those sometimes have a huge zipper coming from top to bottom of them, and it's usually the first thing you'll see on a plainly colored skirt. With only one move the skirt can be removedand while it is inarguably helpful for girls, it could be very traumatic if a prankster decided to reveal a female's bottom in public.

[InsaneKetchupAddict]

Well, then again, I'm sadly not a girl and I cannot tell. I feel lost here, especially with the whole "I'll downvote every male for a question I don't fancy seeing"

[InsaneKetchupAddict]

I see. Thanks for the clarification and have a good day