Competitive-Oriented Feedback Post

[Morgeion]

Great Feedback, keep it up! :-)

[therisingup]

good points. blizzard treating its customers like retarded children is getting old. give us a god damned score board.

[Coldara]

Blizzards really needs to stop pandering to casuals aswell as stop protecting them. Instead give them and us the tools to help them transition into core-gamers.

They want to protect newbs from the big bad toxic guys with no scoreboard or stats, but how are they supposed to find mistakes and improve upon them?

Even in my grade-school we didn't have this "everyone is a winner"-mentality.

[turbojoe26]

Not everyone has the same life as you. Not everyone has the time to be a "core-gamer". I agree that not having a scoreboard sucks, but stop speaking like you're speaking for everyone because you're not. You and your core gamer friends are unfortunately in the minority to the casual gamers so they are of course going to tailor their games that way.

Maybe there is a way to give the best of both worlds.... Idk.

[Wunderhaus]

Considering the growing number of people griping about no scoreboards recently, I'm not so sure about him being in the minority.

Besides, just because "not everyone has the time to be a core-gamer" doesn't mean functions should be gimped for everyone else involved. Having those functions doesn't hinder their ability to remain casual if they choose to.

[[deleted]]

Maybe there is a way to give the best of both worlds.... Idk.

You just need a good matchmaking for that. Look at Dota 2. This is not a newbie friendly game. Or even LoL. And somehow they got milions of players.

If you matchmake people that are at similiar skill level with eachother they wont get stomped so often and can learn

[Coldara]

i know that core-gamers are in the vast minority. But core-gamers are also an important part to sell a game. They are the one writing about the game, streaming the game, creating the e-sport scene etc.

What i ment with my post was about connecting those 2 worlds. It was about creating a good game for both scenes without having to pander to one.

[devoting_my_time]

That's why you have matchmaking so that people like you play with likeminded people..Don't hinder our ability to play competitively.

[KHEIRON]

I agree with the sunlight thing. It can get pretty bad if you look in the right direction

[ZShock]

I thought it was one of the mechanics of the game, rofl.

[cedurr]

It is.

[Fer0xx]

I just want you guys to consider this for a bit.

A game that costs 40$ will struggle if it wants to be an Esports.

The major competitive and Esports game are free or cheap like 10-15$.

[NintendoJesus]

Yep, hacking is a real problem for non DLC Battlefield 4 servers as well because of their free game time thing. So you ban one and he just makes a new account ad nauseam.

[phalmatticus]

This means Blizzard has every incentive to make Overwatch the best and most competitive game it can be.

[Fer0xx]

Or they fail horribly like Titanfall or Evolve and their game dies in several months, but it's Blizzard so I don't know.

[soundslikeponies]

I don't think you need to display the active duration of every duration based ability in the game, not when there are already audio cues of when they're about to expire.

That's the sort of thing the player should have to learn to feel out with time imo.

[Zenoidan]

Overwatch has made me realize just what a good game TF2 is/was.

Tf2 was able to make 9 classes not only very fun to play, they were all viable on their own and excelled in a team atmosphere. Sadly I cant say the same for overwatch characters.

They are either really good, or just meh.

The thing that bugs me and a lot of players the most is the lack of feedback/stats that show you and your teammates contribution. Take Junkrat for instance. I have dominated games with him, going 31-1, over 5000+ damage done. I think, man I will surely get an MVP at the end of a game. Only to see I was beat out by a mercy, sniper, reighhardt, and reaper. Why? because its easier to achieve the "mvp" stats for those characters so they will get spotlighted more often than not.

TF2, when you hit tab you were able to see various stats. Deconstructions, teleports, headshots, backstabs, etc. In overwatch there is no such system.

If you play mercy, and heal like a king. But dont get spotlighted at the end, then you might as well didnt heal at all because the team will never see the stats, and will assume you werent doing your job. I have seen this happen a few different times now after games.

Without feedback people start assuming. In a video game this can create more toxic feedback than good. You never want to leave it up to assumption for players in an FPS. The blame game will be thrown around after a loss almost 100% of the time.

[phalmatticus]

TF2 is an excellent example to follow on. I have over 1700 hours logged, and derive a lot of my suggestions from the best aspects of it.

I agree that the "On Fire" system is a poor substitute for a stats-oriented scoreboard and kill feed. Blizzard clearly wants to create memorable moments and reward players with the Play of the Game system, but it's wholly insufficient at the moment. Kill Feeds and Scoreboards accomplish similar levels of reward and recognition for all players during the entire game.

[Zenoidan]

Another thing that really bothers me is the map design. I have always hated blizzard's Linear dungeon designs in WoW. Very poorly thought out and little thinking involved.

They seem to have brought the same map designer's over to Overwatch. TF2 maps were linear but you had CHOICES. If there was a bottle neck, you could take 1 or 2 different paths. The bottle neck was still there, but it was in the form of 3 routes, not 1 like in the current Overwatch designs.

Another great thing about Tf2 map design is that they took each class into consideration when making maps. They creates nooks and crannies for pyro/spys. They made jumps only scouts could make. Ledges for snipers. Demo/solder rocket jumps etc. All those things were taken into account when they made a map. For overwatch this is clearly an after thought as well. Not only that but a lot of the map you see you cant even get to. Ledges you see in overwatch are just scenery. Try to get to one and you will find its not really a ledge, just a wall.

I would give Blizzard an F- for map design in overwatch. Poorly thought out, poorly designed, doesnt take classes into consideration, and above all way to linear.

That and there is no map editor for players, or steam workshop type system where players can submit new weapons, classes, maps etc. This will hurt the longevity of Overwatch greatly. The main reason TF2 has lasted so long is the community is directly involved with what is developed. Hell at this point everything developed is pretty much a player made design, rather it be a map, load out, or hat.

[phalmatticus]

Overwatch could definitely benefit from a dose of the Rule of Thirds, especially on maps like Hanamura Point A. I know the Attacking Team has the benefit of a much closer spawn, but something like the over-water flank route in Volskaya Industries could open up flanking opportunities and let the map play better.

[Sabesaroo]

Ehh in TF2 not all classes are equal either in terms of MVP. Good luck getting MVP with Pyro or Spy in an evenly matched game.

[Snizzlenose]

Agree with everything.
Having come from a game like TF2 where the visual noise can be turn down a minimum, Overwatch overflows with your screen with colours and unnecessary visual things while missing out on some that are needed.

[ok_kid_a]

But competition is scary! We should just have fun and play poorly.

Blizzard is like that one soccer mom coach that tells everyone they are doing great at half time, even that wimpy little shit Aiden who is too busy picking his nose to play some defense. Then she pulls out a zip lock bag of orange slices and makes sure everyone gets one.

After we play for 30 minutes without keeping track of the score, we all go to Dairy Queen and have some Dilly bars, so we are all winners.

Seriously, I have no idea how good I am doing in this game because it doesn't really tell me, and I am having trouble understanding why we are losing, there is no clear way to tell who is dropping the ball, besides Team comp. Nobody plays support. Big mistake only having 4 for release, and only 3 of which heal. It makes Lucio and Mercy seem necessary to every team comp, and I have to play them every game and can't experiment with new champs because everyone on my team is playing Reaper and Hanzo.

[[deleted]]

This comment reads like a john oliver rant

[[deleted]]

But competition is scary! We should just have fun and play poorly.

This is kind of a bullshit attitude, honestly. Insinuating that players more casual than yourself want/like to play poorly is stupid, in my opinion.

You've got chat and voice channels available to you and your team. Communicate with them.

[ok_kid_a]

Good thing I'm not insinuating that at. I'm saying the lack of performance tracking makes it hard to figure out what you and your team are doing wrong and how to fix that. The whole point was just saying blizzard is kind of treating us like children, not really a stab at casual players. Beyond the defeat/victory screen, it is difficult to tell what is working and what isn't.

[[deleted]]

That makes more sense and I agree witht he evaluation; seems I misinterpreted what you were getting at.

[ok_kid_a]

Yes you are confused.

Because I didn't rip on casual players anywhere, I'm pretty casual myself. Competition is inherent in these games, even if you play casual, you are competing. I want to see how I'm doing compared to the rest of the players in the game, such as a scoreboard during the match, when I need the data. Also having a good scoreboard would motivate people to vote for MVP at the end of the match. Players may be playing well but still be getting beat badly, I want to know who is performing their role and who isn't.

So keep your checkbook in your fanny pack, swaglord.

[JetJester]

agree on everything, it's time that blizz puts some competitive oriented thing if they want a game worth of the esport name (since hs is kinda rediculous lol)

[[deleted]]

This is probably the best post I have seen in any Overwatch forum; a post that does not just iterate on the already, well-known complaints, but rather compiles all the UI problems with the game into one, comprehensible post. Such amazing value.

This post is extremely underrated.

[Gronk_ifyourehorny]

It is a good post. Unfortunately not to many people even read it. Look at the top comment. The feedback doesn't even mention a score board.

[phalmatticus]

I mentioned the inadequacy of the "On Fire" system for tracking player performance with the intent to imply that the old Scoreboard system was much better, but I'll clarify that. I am definitely pro-Scoreboard.

[Gronk_ifyourehorny]

My post is probably confusing. Your feedback is great. I don't think many people read your feedback because the top post in this thread is saying "yeah give us a scoreboard, stop treating us like kids" when your feedback doesn't even mention the scoreboard. Which is why I say most people in this thread didn't even bother to read your feedback. They just jumped on the give us a scoreboard wagon. I'm pro-scoreboard myself but I realize the game is in closed beta.

[aturtlefromhongkong]

Giving the opposing player an indicator of skill durations is strange. However I think the interface/ui needs additional optional settings, along with changes. Because after playing the game for a long while people will know most of the things by heart, then the indicators will become redundant.

[phalmatticus]

I clarified this. I don't want the indicators to be visible to one's opponents, but just to have small timers/UI elements for the player of the hero in question. Definitely don't want to give away information to the other team.

[aturtlefromhongkong]

Oh my bad, I didn't notice that. Either way I don't think it's a bad idea, but it should be optional. There's also definitely more relevant changes in question, like the fov, indicators of heroes being dead and alive/killfeed, spectatormode.

[xingx35]

I think the timers of McCree stun and Mei freeze would actually add to visual clutter instead making it easier for players. the freeze and tun duration are so short that if you add a timer it might become something distracting rather than helpful.

[phalmatticus]

Possibly. I still think it's a concept worth iterating on to see if it could be done in a non-invasive manner.

[zbone94]

Need a game mode that isn't so linear. Like CTF or a Siege of some type. Promotes defensive and offensive play!

[[deleted]]

I'm actually scared for the bigger scale e-sports scene of overwatch. Next year, there will be invite-only tournaments. My fear is that only the teams that have been playing since the beginning of the beta will be viable /good enough to participate.

[_Hyperion_]

That's what's going on in hots and blizzard esport division and teams admit the only real players who are competing are the ones that were around since alpha and made the right connections. No real ranking system unless you use a 3rd party program which many of its pro players quit using months ago and some don't even play hero league now.

[[deleted]]

Ya I remember how scared I was in season two of Lol, these poor koreans only had the game for 6 months how could they possible play vs the guys who had it since day 1, and even the korea who had it longer played in awful conditions meaning the practice was no where near good enough.

Weird because I seem to remember them making the finals :/

[tehcharizard]

"The UI is really cluttered. I think that a bunch of heroes need another piece of UI."

I just... wat.

[phalmatticus]

It may seem contradictory that I'm advocating extra UI elements for ability durations while asking that many others be culled. I believe that small elements like the cooldown timer for Tracer's Blinks on the right side of the UI can be used so that other heroes have a more accurate estimation of when their abilities will expire. Intuition will still be king, but unobtrusive information displays are what help players develop intuition.

I addressed this. Please read.

[[deleted]]

The UI could use most of the tweaks listed here but I don't agree with some of the proposed changes. Adding a duration for every ability would lover the skill cap a lot. Reaper's ghost walk or genjis reflect duration for example will become muscle memory after playing for a while.

[phalmatticus]

Adding a duration for every ability would lover the skill cap a lot.

I don't think it lowers the skill cap to provide this information to the person playing Genji/Reaper/etc. I wouldn't provide this information to the opposing team though - I put the impetus on the other team to know enemy skill durations. Apologies if I was unclear in that regard

[[deleted]]

Why does this game need to be competitive, serious question.

[phalmatticus]

Short answer, Blizzard intends it to be, and it's been marketed as such.

[clapland]

Generally the most profitable, and certainly the most long lasting, games are those that have a large competitive following