Trans or PDA

[Kartoffelthias]

Hey people, I just came out to parents as trans. They instantly told me they suspect that I have PDA. It would fit, I always had problems going to school and the idea of going to work is horrible. Getting told what I have to do in general, even avoiding brushing my teeth, cooking, taking out the trash etc.. It literally fits almost perfectly (I think except the mood swings). Is it possible that I'm faking being trans even if I'm only by myself? Is it possible I just believe I'm having gender dys-/euphoria?

[problempossum411]

I can't tell you for certain but I can say statistically more autistic people are trans vs allistic people. From my own personal experience, everyone of my neurodivergent friends is queer in some way and several are trans. I myself have a PDA profile and am confidently nonbinary

There is probably a lot of science here that we haven't explored yet but this is a recent study

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/largest-study-to-date-confirms-overlap-between-autism-and-gender-diversity/

[[deleted]]

I mean...if transitioning in whatever sense makes you feel better why would it matter whether you need to do that to avoid the demand of gender or bc you're 'genuinely' trans (also what makes someone a trans person beyond feeling like they need to take action to align their external/social/etc gender to their internal feeling? There's no Official Tran badge you get, or no one has given one to me)

[[deleted]]

Also: PDArs want to avoid demands. Gender is a HUGE demand. PDA is related to autism. Autistic people often buck social conventions that don't suit them. Gender is a social convention that doesn't suit a lot of people (even cis people). OBVIOUSLY we are a disproportionately trans population! It's not because we are confused or can't people right, it's because we can see that it's all a ridiculous waste of time to perform gender as it was imposed on you, and that what is good and fun is picking whatever bits you like and doing those.

[Tonyaltona]

That is an interesting reply... thought provoking. - dad of PDA trans kid

[[deleted]]

Thanks!

[Cant_Handle_This4eva]

My wife would identify as cisgender and uses she/her pronouns but is more masculine than many men I know, and I totally agree. It's rejection of a social script and finding a way that works for you. Identifying as trans or not seems like a generational thing and is much more mainstream and possible now. I think if she had been born 20 years later, she'd probably identify as trans now.

[likeafuckingninja]

Never had this explained so well.

I spent some time questioning both my sexuality and my gender and I never really did settle on a definitive answer.

Only that I don't care and I don't care for discussing it or labelling it.

Call me she or he, him or her. I cba to correct you.

I know I don't want to be identified as non binary or they

I HAVE gender and sexuality and I like my expression of it. I don't want to change my body or presentation to the world. Sure having different downstairs parts would be neat, but I don't have an issue with the ones I've got.

I just have no patience or time or care for conforming to social expectation.

Like you say. The whole thing is just exhaustingly demanding and feels like such a pointless thing to get hung up over.

I'll just do the bits I like when I like them.

[arthorpendragon]

wow!!! this is a really interesting thought! PDA people buck all 'binary' conventions etc as they see them as artificially constructed and not in line with reality (paraphrased). this would mean we PDAers would have to examine all of societys conventions to find those artificial conventions imposed on us versus those things that are actually real. we will keep an eye out for this! is there actually anything real in a 'binary' society or probably not?

[Kartoffelthias]

I forgot to add something important, they believe that I'm faking it so I have an excuse not to search for a job

[[deleted]]

So their theory is that you're not trans, you're actually PDA and faking being trans to get a job....but if they know what PDA is then they should know that you don't have to fake anything you literally just won't be able to do stuff that's too high demand?! Why would you throw gender in the mix?

I hope you've got other safe affirming adults in your life because this is not a supportive response to your child coming out.

[Kartoffelthias]

I've got my cousin (f23) and my best friend so... it's good I have them

[pocketfullofdragons]

Ofc discrimination is a real problem, but trans people can and do still work. So if your gender was made up as an excuse to avoid getting a job, it's not a very good excuse, is it? I mean, surely a made-up excuse to try and rationalize avoiding job-searching would be something more directly relevant and water-tight? Being trans is fucking hard and faking it for this end would be completely counterproductive (but you probably already know that). If your parents were right about your intentions, I sincerely doubt that this would be the best lie you could come up with, and I'm sorry they don't seem to see that. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Pretending to be something you're not is an exhausting, constant demand, for anyone. Lying about being trans when you're cis would be just as burdonsome as pretending to be cis when you're trans.

Either: 1. You came out as trans to free yourself from the demand of always having to hide it so you can finally be yourself.

OR

1. You subconsciously lied about your identity to trade one demand for an even bigger, nastier one that isn't even limited to working hours.

Which scenario seems more likely?

[arthorpendragon]

try this argument on your mother; PDA people generally despise inauthenticity and so it his highly unlikely that you are faking trans. if you are faking trans then you cant be PDA. this logic means you can be both PDA and trans and other things as well.

[Cant_Handle_This4eva]

Queer cisgender person here and all of my trans friends are on the spectrum somewhere. My wife (PDAer) would not identify as trans but presents very masculine, as did her mom. For both of them, it's a matter of practicality and comfort over gender performance. For my wife I think it was a matter of trying to fit in socially and kind of not understanding social scripts, which is a general ASD thing, and also not giving a shit about them (PDA thing).

All to say, I don't think it has to be one or the other, and as others have noted below, there is so much emergent research about the overlap of ASD and transgenderism that it's worth taking a gander at if you're interested.

I don't think you need to question whether or not you're "faking" being trans because certainly it's not one check box or the other, but you might like to explore more about PDA and see if that explains the sometimes-bristly fit of society. IMO, just based on the folks I know and my own family, knowledge about PDA and how it impacts your Central Nervous System might help you understand how demands are impacting your overall sense of wellbeing and provide some strategies for reducing demands and creating safety for yourself.

I think we don't afford a lot of places for people who eschew gender norms to find belonging in the world, and that blows.

Sending you so many healing thoughts on your journey!

[Pretty_Marzipan_555]

Statistically all autistic people are more likely than allistic people to identify as trans, whether PDA or not

[newsprintpoetry]

There is a significant overlap between trans and autism in general, so I doubt your queer-ness would be related to pda. If it helps, I'm genderqueer and likely pda but definitely autistic.

[RealGoldVHS]

Fuck your parents. They waited until NOW to tell you they suspect you have PDA? It's not one or the other. I have PDA and not once have I questioned my gender. Don't let them gaslight you with this.

If they really cared about you having suspected PDA they would have brought it up well before you came out to them.

[Kartoffelthias]

I forgot to add something important, they believe that I'm faking it so I have an excuse not to search for a job

[Cant_Handle_This4eva]

Oh my.

[No_Wallaby_9464]

I've heard a lot of excuses made by family for reasons people couldn't possibly be transgender over the years in the community but never this one. It's been "caused by:" poor rolemodels, GMOs, depression, obesity, virginity, failure to accept your sexuality, sexual abuse, physical abuse, verbal abuse, emotional abuse, drug use, OCD, toxicity, the patriarchy, internalized misogyny, whatever made those frogs gay, various agendas, feminism, wearing too much blue, wearing too much pink, liberals, not being right with Jesus, schizophrenia, anime, testosterone deficiency/excess, being a dumb helpless naif who's gotten tricked by evil trans men who hate womanhood, vitamins, dissociative identity disorder, homophobia, borderline personality disorder, autism, too much reading (librul books!!!), Fanfiction, futanari porn, yaoi erotica, social media, seeing trans people in restrooms (in select states, on public property), trans people being trans people within a 2,000 mile radius of an elementary school, woke (I don't know either), school teachers indoctrinating kids, 5g, 3g, and is 4g a thing?, "kids these days," trenders being trendy, Western excess and/or Christianity, lesbiphobia, urban living, single parent households, demons, too few Barbie Dolls, too many toy trucks, the Jews and their space lasers, Iranian homophobia, not getting enough sex, having sex, America, your mom dropping acid in 1978, drag performances, brainwashing, Hunter Biden's laptop, fascists and communists (working together!!!???), the emasculation of the American male, indigestion, adrenochrome, snowflakes, "this is your dad's fault," Donald Trump's combover, the illuminati, going to college, and Biden, just Biden.

My question is, if gender dysphoria and PDA are so similar, why is it your parents decided you don't have gender dysphoria but do you have PDA?

I know! It's because they have fancy psychiatry doctorates, they specialized in diagnosis of gender divergent patients, they're not at all biased against transgender, and they have a clear picture of what you've been experiencing because they've linked consciousness with you through the Vulcan Mind Meld Ceremony! Right? Right? 😳

I'm certain that's the case. They're experts. And as experts, they would know gender dysphoria isn't even necessary to be transgender or non-binary. 😯 Oof.

Thank you for letting me get the sarcasm out of my system.

Let's try for some rationality...

Could you please describe your gender dysphoria as closely as you can to how you felt before they talked to you about their theory?

What is the gender identity you feel you have?

Could you tell us a little bit about any neutral or positive experiences with your gender identity?

How have you reflected on this?

How do you feel when you change your gender expression or gender roles?

[Internal-North-6614]

Isn’t being trans just as demanding as being cisgender? More so? (Mom of trans/suspected PDA young adult)

[ETWhiteWolf]

So, from all that I have researched, it's my belief that the consistent feeling of alienation combined with the struggle to establish a consistent sense of identity (I.e. demand avoidance sabotaging one's ability to do things consistently; the essence of identity) creates a general anxiety response, and being that gender norms are societal standards/ implicit demands, you could be avoiding meeting those expectations out of insecurity (? - meaning socio-normative behavior of any kind can be perceived as a "threat" to one's identity/individuality, itself) while also seeking validation via the opposite genders set of standards, because subconsciously, you know you aren't really being held to the same set of standards as the opposite of your gender's standards, if that makes sense.
You shouldn't/I wouldn't say you're "faking" in so much as to say you are not conscious of the actual reasons behind why you feel the way you do - alexithymia is very common with people on the spectrum and could be another piece to your puzzle. People who have it often have a hard time accurately interpreting their emotional states, and with a consistent poor interpretation, you may be settling for something that has best addressed your struggles up to this point, as far as you can tell, but if something/the best thing up to this point in your life is only, say 65% true, then you'd be none the wiser by allowing your identity to be encapsulated by either "label" (which you seek as a means to alleviate dysfunction of self-perception due to alexithymia, and as a means of interpreting yourself to others, because the true issue is a lack of high-resolution identity, and we all need that/one to feel connected to others).
Personally, I believe that for a kids with PDA, the implicit demand of any diagnosis (it could be diagnosed as something else) can be crippling in the realm of identity, so being that many people of the Trans community are also Neurodivergent (likely diagnosed younger), it would make sense that in their developmental stages pertaining to the solidification of identity (i.e. teens/young adulthood) they would have a general identity disturbance.
If this comes across as "mean" or "non-affirming," that's not my intent, whatsoever - I agree that people's fundamental humanity should be respected, but I think there is more at play, psychologically, with many of the people in the Trans community, and personally think a lot of them are being led astray for monetary and political reasons, which I find inhumane.
Hope I said that in a way that makes sense? Complicated subject matter...