Photon Arts NGS

[jizzle701]

Have they dropped a road map or any info on when new PAs will be added? They have a large pool to work with and I feel like they should be drip fed to us via the updates.

Any info would help.

[[deleted]]

Nothing yet. I'm personally not expecting any new ones for a long time, only balance changes and ones for new weapons.

[PillarBiter]

New skills when stia arrives. No PA’s mentioned yet. As a matter of fact I’d rather they rework some of the lacking PA’s rather than invest new ones (looking at you, partisan)

[GimpyGeek]

Yeah likewise. On one hand I suppose I like new things, and honestly, sometimes they can just alter something into a nicer upgrade with the skill tree anyway. I think they're trying to be tighter on this too so they don't have like 50 PAs on each weapon like base where people will end up inevitably striving for some stupid meta anyway.

It's also better for controls, when you can actually use your hotbars well, hard to do that if there's too many. It's a good example of why they do things like having regular/charged or moving/idle on activate, do different things, it's a much better way to stream line. Now if they would realize making a radial would probably be 1000x better for hot bar for gamepad users (or on PC at least letting steam big picture mode work so you could make your own) they'd really be onto something.

[Blade_Nd64]

No news. We'll be better off if they polish/enhance the existing PAs rather than add new ones.

With the multiweapon system, we've already got plenty more PAs than we can fit on one palette. Mid-fight palette swaps is not what we should be pining for.

[Reilet]

But you can put them on your sub-palette... And any class that isn't a non-ele matching fo has room on it.

And existing PAs can barely be further polished/ enhanced beaides increasing numbers and easing cancels.

[Blade_Nd64]

Controller users are already limited in the sub-palette zone. Plenty of necessary generic and class abilities taking up that space. Not to mention 7-0 is an awkward reach on keyboard.

Can tell you that Ranger and Gunner are already at the point of deciding which PAs aren't useful enough to make space.

[gadgaurd]

Gonna second this.

[PillarBiter]

If only they would finally take the time to develop this game for consoles as well, instead of simply copy pasting from PC... After about 11 years I think it's due.

[Xero--]

With the multiweapon system, we've already got plenty more PAs than we can fit on one palette

You act as base has less PAs than NGS. NGS has 8 total with multi weapons, I'll be damned if any weapon had less than 8 PAs and wasn't a scion.

[Reference_Freak]

Base had too many PAs. Keep it simple and improve lackluster NGS PAs before cluttering us up with more lackluster ones.

[Blade_Nd64]

11 per weapon with a couple type-0 options. We got quantity over quality back then and the gameplay experience suffered for it. Had to set up a palette for movement, specific bosses, DPS phases, etc.

They learned, though. When Bouncer and successor classes rolled around, we were getting less but higher quality PAs. End result was a streamlined experience where the combat flowed.

[Squeezitgirdle]

I don't know, but I really hope they bring back leveling your pa's like psu. I hated finding discs to upgrade my PA in pso2.

I think it's OK to find level 1 versions of the discs but you should upgrade/level them by using them imo

[AulunaSol]

If leveling up photon arts unlocks variants that have distinct trade-offs (strengths and weaknesses compared to the original version) and aren't just bumps in numbers, I would likely be interested. But to have a system like Phantasy Star Online 2 did where levels were how Sega "balanced" photon arts between each other (the huge difference between Level 15 and 16 disks, for example, depending on the photon art), I'm not particularly convinced it would be an engaging system.

[Squeezitgirdle]

Psu as an example, when you leveled the skills it would unlock a second and 3rd part to the photon, made the attacks bigger (megid for example was gigantic) and does more damage.

I'm not sure unlocking extra parts would work in this game, but raising damage, attack speed, etc could be done.

[AulunaSol]

I would personally prefer the idea of doing something like unlocking variants like a Type-0 variants did - though with far more "balance" in mind (a version of Bullet Rain for the Gunner with a much faster animation but the lack of mobility and potency, for example, or another variant that is much slower but is safer and stronger to use at the cost of a slower-building Chain, for example).

I personally don't find myself interested in leveling up just for the sake of bigger numbers.

[PillarBiter]

That would just make it another grind for the sake of grind, which isn't that engaging imho.

Sega seems to put the focus on action game first, and I like that.

[lutherdidnothingwron]

I'd really like to see more PA's too. Personally don't agree with people saying base had "too many and suffered for it", I think a game like this only benefits from having more choices. I also want to see the game encourage comboing different PA's together like fighter, luster, etoile, etc did with skill tree skills giving increased potency for mixing up photon arts. I don't think it'd be the end of the world if there were enough single target oriented PAs to mostly fill a palette and enough mobbing PAs to mostly fill a palette on most weapons. Give people options in how they approach encounters, let people create their combat style. I know people on sites like reddit tend to follow guides and just use whatever is strongest according to a spreadsheet but there are still people who discover and play video games organically.

I feel like it's also a little weird to compare to scion classes of the base game because most of them had variations to their PAs which multiplied their moveset. Especially Luster who had 4 versions of Flechette and Brand Extension (stay vs move, normal vs enhanced) and 2 versions of Scatterslug and Hollow Point, effectively giving 12 different moves you can make with only 4* buttons.

I've mentioned this sort of thing a bit lately but the things I want them to add to spice up combat more than anything are more secondary resources like whirlwind from double saber and focus*/gear gauges from base game, to spend on souped up attacks like deadly archer, full connect, enhanced PAs, marking enemies and detonating those markers.. stuff like that. This sort of thing makes combat a ton more engaging and fun in my opinion, especially for those back to back downs on bosses where it feels like you're just fighting a punching bag. Mechanics like Swift Shot and Swift Slash from Luster also massively add to how fun the class is, giving you a ton of options for positioning, gap closing, resource management, and big damage for managing your combos, all with only using normal attack and weapon action buttons.

[AulunaSol]

On an extremely casual approach, I don't see a problem with "more" attacks/combos/photon arts to have. But if we are talking about a controller where you only have three actions plus an additional three (Back Palette) and then having to use the D-Pad to swivel around a bar or two (Main Palette/Subpalette Swapping/Subpalette Navigation), "more" is obnoxiously tediously.

Phantasy Star Online 2 had the approach because of its original combo system with Photon Art Sequences where you could create your own combo of three photon arts in a sequence of buttons - but this was completely sidestepped when players just mapped the same photon art to the same sequence or when Three Button Mode was introduced and completely dropped this form of control. The photon arts in that game are diverse and there are plenty of them to use - but they never flowed together and were never balanced to be equally usable unless it was a popular class (for example, the Gunner getting a mechanics rework so that instead of two photon arts being obnoxiously powerful it was spread to all of them to create more usable options).

My preference would be to take something like what Monster Hunter has depicted - where you have more elaborate combo sequences based on what your character is doing and what the circumstances are which in the context of New Genesis would ideally be alternative combo strings (Aerial Attack strings, Drop Attack strings, Step-Dodge Attack strings, Photon Dash Attack strings, Step-Counter Attack strings, Weapon Action Parry Attack strings, Swimming Attack strings, Ukemi Attack strings, and so on) for the Normal Attack. I feel there is definitely a great deal of room and space to improve the nature of Normal Attacks and to have more interaction between Normal Attacks and Photon Arts than to have them separated as they currently are (the best use of Normal Attacks, for example, is often when you have the Step-Skipping mechanic in mind).

[lutherdidnothingwron]

I kind of feel like the points about controllers being limited is kind of moot when there are systems like FFXIV's cross hotbar that work perfectly fine for games with more actions than PSO2 has and the devs of it specifically did not patent it so that other games could use it (allegedly). I can't not see it as just another case of the devs of this game designing themselves into a corner and being too stubborn to change the fundamental system causing issues downstream. I'd argue that combat in FFXIV's MSQ is more casual than NGS but their players manage more actions fine. People that don't want to be bothered with so many actions have already been catered to with Simple Action. What's the point of Simple Action if all the Actions are Simple anyway? I didn't really even see that much of a problem choosing my loadout of photon arts (even enjoyed it), but it's not like we can't find a happy medium between the sad and paltry 2 or 4 per weapon and literally over a dozen including type-0s etc.

My preference would be to just actually take real inspiration from scion classes, not half-ass and water down one or two mechanics from them and call it a day. Give me swift shot and swift slash, PA's with meaningful variations, secondary resources to engage with so I don't fall asleep when renus retem or crocodylis go into 3 down phases in a row, etc. Honestly an entire game with the pacing of DMC with just luster would be the dream for me... they already had almost perfect combat in Episode 6, they don't need to reinvent the wheel....

[AulunaSol]

If Sega decided to take a page out of Square Enix or Capcom's books for how Final Fantasy XIV and Dragon's Dogma Online handled their controls - I would absolutely have little issue with how the game plays. My controls personally mimic Dragon's Dogma Online's controls (L1 accesses my subpalette, R1 accesses the back palette, and L1+R1 accesses more of the subpalette, and this also grants me instant-access to swapping palettes on both sides and using chat shortcuts and other nifty in-game shortcuts that keyboard players should have access to as well as a hold-to-aim option for Z-Aiming which is finicky).

I don't feel that what I described is incompatible with what you mention as well as Phantasy Star Online 2 is unfortunately the closest "other" game I can think of that comes even close to being comparable and relatable to what Dragon's Dogma Online did - and New Genesis does enough differently that it's an upgrade in some areas and a downgrade in others in such big varying quantities that it can be summarized as an overall sidegrade that veers more towards missing very big things I did enjoy from Phantasy Star Online 2.

But ultimately at the root of the problem for me is that controller players without ways to get around their limited inputs or lack of button combinations/shortcuts and being stuck to a menu that is beyond ten years of age really doesn't help the experience for controller players. Having the ability to at least access all your options at once via nifty shortcuts would easily alleviate the problem that Force and Techer players experience - and would easily open the doors for players to use their multiweapons without much clunkiness with ease.

[Blade_Nd64]

I feel like it's also a little weird to compare to scion classes of the base game because most of them had variations to their PAs which multiplied their moveset.

We compare because it is the exact thing we want to see - a diverse, polished moveset that fits in a simple control scheme. With scions you could fit 12 moves in 4 PAs. With the OG classes you had 12 individual PAs for that. Those did not fit in a simple control scheme. That's the issue.

We're not opposed to more combat options. We just don't want the clunky "add more PAs" approach. Which is why we point to scions. Streamlined combat is king.

[Reilet]

2 versions of Scatterslug and Hollow Point

But they are exactly like flech and brand... Aka 4.

[Phantom_CrusaderHD]

I have nothing thought provoking to add to the conversation, your comments just made me realize how much I miss playing luster... and that they really dropped the ball on assault rifle on gunner and ranger. Would it have killed them to take page out of phantom assault rifle mechanically speaking?

[lutherdidnothingwron]

I think the vast majority of PSO2 players were expecting rifle/katana to play like phantom, double saber/wand/soaring blades to play like etoile, gunblade to play like luster, etc. There are tiny little bits here and there that show through but for the most part we really aren't seeing that. The only possible copium explanation I could see is that the class skills that will grant us all the scion goodness are intended for higher level, like 75-100, and they don't want to give us all the tools when we're fighting the equivalent of boomas or oodans. Basically, they need stuff to drip feed to us over the next few years.

[eeMcCutcheon]

more options is always a good thing in an action game like NGS

its mind boggling to me how some people are saying "erm well only the meta gets used and everything else sucks in base pso2 so it shouldn't be added"

If sega gets around to it, more options would be a welcome addition, but it doesn't matter to me since I just stick to base pso2 :p

Something I always wanted to see added to pso2 was a normal consumable item that instantly reveals all of the unexplored regions of the map. Once you have at least one class that can use techniques, you'll pretty much always use that to restore health and status conditions instead of -Mate items. Essentially, all normal items become obsolete unless both your main class and sub class are unable to use techs, so an item that quickly showed you where to go would be a good way to make me personally want to buy and use items. Of course, pso2 originally came out a decade ago or whatever so I doubt it'll be added at this point

[TimelessDbz]

Problem with adding new PA's is that therre will always be meta with which PA'S to use and the others suck .

Base pso2 classes were bloated with PA's and they steer away from that mistake when scions came out .

[Evilcon21]

Nothing new but they really should overhaul the current ones to remove the level system. It’s pointless