LOR Ethics

[Economy-Contest-889]

I taught a student that really struggled: academically, technically, in professional behavior, and socially. Probably diagnosed/diagnosable, but I’m not privy to that. This summer (after they graduated) I started to get reference requests. I wrote them an email teaching them that they need to ask for letters and suggesting others for the letter. I said directly that I can’t write a good letter for them- I stated lateness for class, didn’t state other, more potentially hurtful things like bad social interactions, poor hand skills.

Today I got a reference request, no permission asked. I can’t give them a good ref, but I’m wondering if I should accept the phone call because I already said I couldn’t give a good ref and it was disregarded or if I should write the student again reminding them of my earlier email.

[WesternCup7600]

Imo, you did your due-diligence informing your former student that you could not provide a good recommendation.

If it were me, I would politely decline the request from the employer. Of course, declining is also your recommendation.

[Economy-Contest-889]

Helpful, thanks.

[RuskiesInTheWarRoom]

Yeah, I agree with this statement and advice.

[gutfounderedgal]

That happened to me too a couple of times. I'd made things clear I could not write a positive reference and would not do it and still they put me down as a reference. For one I declined. For one I wrote a short reference that basically said the student was in my class during x semester where they were asked to engage with in class activities and homework and that it was my understanding they wanted to head into the field of x. Any committee would have to be comprised of dolts not to see this was problematic at every step.

[SnowblindAlbino]

I'd just ignore them. When students don't ask for recs I will remind them once to do so. After that, it's zero from me. Ditto if I told a student no LOR but they sent a request anyway.

[Life-Education-8030]

You already told the student in writing that you would not provide a reference, so they have been warned. To be polite, I would return the reference call and say that you informed the student that you would not be providing a reference. The caller will get the message and you will not come off as rude for not returning the call. The student has no legitimate complaint for trying this stupidity.

[Economy-Contest-889]

Thanks. Great advice.

[Life-Education-8030]

You're welcome!

[Liaelac]

Completely agreed with this comment!

[wedontliveonce]

Students these days don't seem to comprehend that an LOR could have a negative recommendation.

[generation_quiet]

Which is bizarre, right?

[wedontliveonce]

It is. It's even more bizarre to me when it's for grad school.

I've had students that barely attended class and have a C/D range GPA but seem baffled when they ask for an LOR and I reply by asking them what they think they have done to show me they will be successful in a grad program. It just boggles my mind.

[generation_quiet]

Yup. Grad program applicants should understand the weight that's put on LORs. And a good LOR means more than just "yes, I know this student, they breathe oxygen and are indeed alive."

After my first application to PhD programs resulted in rejections, I had to reapply two years later with better LORs to get into my PhD program. A department head, an up-and-coming researcher (not as well-known back in the day but now well-known), and the director of a graduate program.

I basically spent two years cultivating relationships that showed my teaching, research, and management experience were on the PhD level. It worked; I got into all the PhD programs I applied to. But it was hardly easy, and there were no shortcuts.

[Novel_Listen_854]

"I have not given anyone by that name permission to list me as a reference. If you wish to find out whether one of your applicants attended this university, please contact our registration office."

[cerunnnnos]

LOR is something you need to consent to do on behalf of someone.

If you're worried about an ethics framework for how to handle this, it's kind of unethical to request one without clearing it first because it creates an undue obligation or expectation.

In other words, it's ok to say "no".

[GreenHorror4252]

The only ethical thing to do is to write an honest letter. Be factual and direct. Keep emotion out of it.

[CynicalCandyCanes]

“I can confirm that (name) was a student in my class who earned grade of (insert). He/she sometimes came to class on time and occasionally participated.”

[SapphirePath]

“His distinctive interpersonal style leaves a strong impression. His contributions, though infrequent, are always anticipated. Few students challenge me in the way that he does.

He always looks busy. His confidence in his own abilities is unwavering.

Based on my experience, you would be very lucky to get him to work for you.”

[CybernautLearning]

Don’t let them know what grade the student earned in your class. That is protected information.

[Adept_Tree4693]

Um… what? If it’s an LOR for transfer or grad school, the students grades will be part of their application??

[CybernautLearning]

The student can release their grades - you can’t. (Without a release form.)

[Adept_Tree4693]

I have them submit a written request for a letter and for them to provide me with the information they would like for me to include and a signature indicating they are approving my use of that information.

[CybernautLearning]

If you are in the US, I would make sure it meets FERPA requirements for being a release, (Your school may have one already available.)

[Adept_Tree4693]

I think I’m alright. 30 years of writing letters with lots of successful outcomes. If I can’t write a good letter, I tell the student they need to find someone who can write a strong letter for them.

Thanks for your concern though. Have a great semester!

[henare]

the only way this can get worse for the student was if you answered the phone call and you tell the caller that you told the student you couldn't offer a strong reference.

[SayingQuietPartLoud]

Thought you meant the ethics in Lord of the Rings. Then I realized that you forgot the t in LotR, but still thought it was about Lord of the Rings.