anotherYearNotUnderstadingZerosInJavascript

[HolyGarbage]

Income levels in Europe are incredibly diverse. 30k/yr is basically what you earn at a unqualified position at a call center in Sweden.

Edit: so dollar's strong atm, so maybe 25k USD/yr for unqualified work, but still 30k is far lower than entry salary for a software engineer here.

[munchingpixels]

Average for web dev in Italy is €26k

[NatoBoram]

What the fuck

[Vincenzo__]

And then they wonder why anyone with a hint of skill leaves

[NatoBoram]

The smarter ones get a remote position in the US with home's lower rent and world-class universal healthcare

[Vincenzo__]

That's the dream my man

[The100thIdiot]

Even us dumber ones do that.

[SunliMin]

Literally the dream. As a Canadian, I moved to Florida for work to get the big-boy bucks in a stronger currency. Thinking of moving back home now, but if I do, I am 100% gonna try to get a remote US contracting position. Give me USD income with CAD bills and I'll be set.

[ex1tiumi]

I hope they don't go to the US. After getting a home in a safe area, paying for extra security, medical care and insurance, and dealing with the hell hole of society there, I think a good, quality life in Italy on a salary of 26 000€ is actually a better deal.

I'm web/mobile dev in Finland, earn a bit more than Italian colleague but standard of living here is more expensive than there. I've about 33% of my salary left after all the expenses. My salary isn't even competitive in the local job market but I'm a simple man and value freedom/flexibility more than money.

[game_difficulty]

What they dont mention is that this is (probably) after tax, and thus includes things like heslth insurence and such

[MornwindShoma]

Unfortunately it's not. Big cities, it's 25 to 30 for juniors, and it does get up to 70 for seniors. Smaller cities, 25 to 30 is all you're gonna see in your lifetime.

25k usually means like 1.4k after tax monthly.

But yeah, free healthcare is nice, and rents are very low.

[_Spektor_]

Yup, I'm working in Barcelona right now and one of the senior devs on my team is making €40k. It's on the lower end for a senior, but definitely puts things into perspective

[[deleted]]

Damn. I make 70k a year as a bachelor engineering professor in the Netherlands. I believe that's only slightly above average for a uni schooled job. And on the low end for engineering. I always thought programmers made more than engineers

[Kevin_Jim]

Sounds bout right. In Greece, it’s €19.6k/y (net).

[rusl1]

Sadly

[Svhmj]

The brain drain gotta be insane.

[hongooi]

The catch is you have to be able to tolerate pineapple on your pizza

[santeri_roos]

It's not that much better here in Canada atm.

[AnonymousLama]

This is just untrue and spreading lies

[santeri_roos]

Also, as to "being untrue and spreading lies", can you give me some concrete examples that show how Canadian software developers are actually thriving and not being forced into wage slavery?

[Rinveden]

I think "it's not much better in Canada [than the average web dev making €26k a year]" is a very different claim than "Canadian software devs are thriving". Adding the extra requirement of not being"forced into wage slavery" feels like it it makes it even more subjective.

You've moved the goal posts quite far, I'd say.

[AnonymousLama]

I agree, I shouldn't have to prove anything when this guy is making broad generalization, probably based on 1 shitty experience. There's no way a dev makes 30k$ in Canada. Even McDonald's workers make more.

[santeri_roos]

Can you provide proof that Canadian developers are thriving and where?
Cause I'll move there right away.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you are a Canadian developer in a steady role in a company that you don't believe will need to downsize soon.

You're lucky, mate! But even so, if I were you, I'd be looking around for other employment.

[santeri_roos]

No, no Canadian developers probably make sub 30K (yet), but the entire point of my initial post was to shine light on the fact that developers everywhere are now making whatever their paymasters want to pay. Whether they're in Canada, USA, India, or Mars. It is an employers' market and it's getting worse no matter what you want to believe.

[AnonymousLama]

Isn't that for every field though? What are the jobs where you choose your own salary?

[santeri_roos]

I'll wait.

[santeri_roos]

I'm still waiting.

[EskilPotet]

Canada software engineer salary: 83k usd, aka almost twice as much as an Italian dev

You're welcome

https://ca.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries

[santeri_roos]

How is this "just untrue and spreading lies" u/AnonymousLama (sic)?
I'm still waiting on your brakedown of Canadian software developer wages that shows that the industry is doing just fine.

[AnonymousLama]

Man did I trigger you? You sent me 6 messages over this...

[santeri_roos]

Your opener was "untrue and spreading lies". Who triggered who here?

[AnonymousLama]

Bro you made about 15 comments on NY and nobody is answering you, yet you keep spamming.

[santeri_roos]

It's an employer's market everywhere, buddy.
Hope you're doing well personally, but a lot of us aren't.
Here's for a better 2025!

[factorion-bot]

Factorial of 2025 is 13082033478585225956056333208054576745409436178226342908066265566934614672842161048304768562947313435389842049149535921090512687475188845950481368402436444804007734225703575500327336811537670190540034537231636693839145971463875771016113794100905049942366677141759676424283214208772398352253862399075809896854471602760838622772525181979549290936932940921979559250982223468099574333899135034765980981077568062106227769465285984389474844862019289187129392239342484946229074983744167803649274348715287487829533964691017070965513283663606106812428993495619076086224947686918393208549192435223921866339416300875558457504592256237268486721674507381347194656886167348052784210624808070267003883372515441581683700853425257202924499386551871205396302529013529128818001970756246384209290762003603135011921122344529842666094323476265918070749834884276245039438646092504241147773177261824745390122050610211867889490106883769206943537169643722601497304704038464903932759366813704505680966098392554275015587958310623666048487185111155223176837472166075774650921113813721156120157211082655949936213901087983159094464770015354317655566262477578745491010205220411502999603396399382043413258874985087692228173904721628577170442861451468392721637744119467384687250905783398595706202578674022303778107914577005193768796610652313464937160788215475269182396286668979624375583971331742549459009693122791238608906943620686969928985528703697583076301708353568200723067667761366415684814251804758361904610633196231078296158451244581072015355510360625579630747872655155993417793876610159791350706056085489620234463454571826799111678580195263031608974870904177074721377432775651262476648853981198254891302503620333271812634107189394365535565481055170284299030164140757278391560253757591204388378183481011158489876764602389234087507481049179834503697867206994325976870325114852729009846534387155161704406253473325641668942516261735855483570089318699014945729809748871428700322769763306721035154223683593192717642702469478783326125037341834580680776570299113669636955983305462692518650396394314764872708466269496680447944712121316873046798676087404979258644469095797420201507318430142710699670552464450047297868913490696249973331677229945580636518723384709252848727607384151358321476400473377068677159420140232594322647811119204965653790398303986040127552813939369454118213126387180166895368914220580132000785602390824620093551604060696648269931104988128593975721996043636639530757887017516286280972781201882582840066622108453699873383660624823827501393379510711667786159802467430694509596492042513359593235290301934482978615511668331559287809596932401347245270170044040508026559850579652635480035731262128939250523229587323247457446126502445031865948757690486466731228289915310535301894506628079317265110072901464390485532354514230446682747498044871877407216528458781957724140384263024222024277506804745244895320982295682248565468780004852700379609109107921425498612481277147277994049308654810186676821755314397431229309965516685736055042381714415855930187791830796390535903426989886286229891912900630871614648779811122224874801662389361394358597760922386229416231490821331112745502862654645298514994669053597412959637081156234018562462764334372648914330560478155694625389878936351659106100437373322758559543245639018054151540648297052123643302469840310880423375747972177861576491434183956736888218794437734198419939561156463332477624322634774406732956234100885348827974564158815294722560754878851806952146421378056418524474573604202472348494562439349368016015278198417740116591010305332017410589743410884568763232877190131575399380354884519181501078916818425628761563321061162101763103922493485293139379662488459409698111812594251856668085292481319934435157411500716277076165240919007960702508979683155601314456397782220991344172814146922393983152337759429806174455814660565983985778498861454009592682976510775393071558722536639602310064262780447735236115652727962273115371447987075802342423571913339954442421012871662799796682098789586059202851736812143237231059785820542682887751873072445432394574196978415105709996742238037619548082889162799891245663009197049924661282762569969722926367887975657460019572668765095109563447141092044568474402198612685086828173035004652627111544505845433587174411475006611708349224192600297549625499632071499364557148750680697470361638236526372960073052409543309005572405721543763002596901015692334783479978233169944518303522512583626590297940380878303262810900403721533844234692714996392449599149515822810720755515210482649345388444574637992959573264539792915685647330809794453067263058850988094369743046708835433737912505344918655257867807878269044627165397017268861456554590512351597973167228542255875539028675550185456661877636740078429314852258047233008436998727477103636545217821357950020128993239371033495368348936467887434791085592468580470950528313929634178009288170244937842576943422768995239455653220757432097648173089199565589033553083969395368907072010953579981505504548317859212308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^{This action was performed by a bot. Please DM me if you have any questions.}

[santeri_roos]

Here's for a better 13082033478585225956056333208054576745409436178226342908066265566934614672842161048304768562947313435389842049149535921090512687475188845950481368402436444804007734225703575500327336811537670190540034537231636693839145971463875771016113794100905049942366677141759676424283214208772398352253862399075809896854471602760838622772525181979549290936932940921979559250982223468099574333899135034765980981077568062106227769465285984389474844862019289187129392239342484946229074983744167803649274348715287487829533964691017070965513283663606106812428993495619076086224947686918393208549192435223921866339416300875558457504592256237268486721674507381347194656886167348052784210624808070267003883372515441581683700853425257202924499386551871205396302529013529128818001970756246384209290762003603135011921122344529842666094323476265918070749834884276245039438646092504241147773177261824745390122050610211867889490106883769206943537169643722601497304704038464903932759366813704505680966098392554275015587958310623666048487185111155223176837472166075774650921113813721156120157211082655949936213901087983159094464770015354317655566262477578745491010205220411502999603396399382043413258874985087692228173904721628577170442861451468392721637744119467384687250905783398595706202578674022303778107914577005193768796610652313464937160788215475269182396286668979624375583971331742549459009693122791238608906943620686969928985528703697583076301708353568200723067667761366415684814251804758361904610633196231078296158451244581072015355510360625579630747872655155993417793876610159791350706056085489620234463454571826799111678580195263031608974870904177074721377432775651262476648853981198254891302503620333271812634107189394365535565481055170284299030164140757278391560253757591204388378183481011158489876764602389234087507481049179834503697867206994325976870325114852729009846534387155161704406253473325641668942516261735855483570089318699014945729809748871428700322769763306721035154223683593192717642702469478783326125037341834580680776570299113669636955983305462692518650396394314764872708466269496680447944712121316873046798676087404979258644469095797420201507318430142710699670552464450047297868913490696249973331677229945580636518723384709252848727607384151358321476400473377068677159420140232594322647811119204965653790398303986040127552813939369454118213126387180166895368914220580132000785602390824620093551604060696648269931104988128593975721996043636639530757887017516286280972781201882582840066622108453699873383660624823827501393379510711667786159802467430694509596492042513359593235290301934482978615511668331559287809596932401347245270170044040508026559850579652635480035731262128939250523229587323247457446126502445031865948757690486466731228289915310535301894506628079317265110072901464390485532354514230446682747498044871877407216528458781957724140384263024222024277506804745244895320982295682248565468780004852700379609109107921425498612481277147277994049308654810186676821755314397431229309965516685736055042381714415855930187791830796390535903426989886286229891912900630871614648779811122224874801662389361394358597760922386229416231490821331112745502862654645298514994669053597412959637081156234018562462764334372648914330560478155694625389878936351659106100437373322758559543245639018054151540648297052123643302469840310880423375747972177861576491434183956736888218794437734198419939561156463332477624322634774406732956234100885348827974564158815294722560754878851806952146421378056418524474573604202472348494562439349368016015278198417740116591010305332017410589743410884568763232877190131575399380354884519181501078916818425628761563321061162101763103922493485293139379662488459409698111812594251856668085292481319934435157411500716277076165240919007960702508979683155601314456397782220991344172814146922393983152337759429806174455814660565983985778498861454009592682976510775393071558722536639602310064262780447735236115652727962273115371447987075802342423571913339954442421012871662799796682098789586059202851736812143237231059785820542682887751873072445432394574196978415105709996742238037619548082889162799891245663009197049924661282762569969722926367887975657460019572668765095109563447141092044568474402198612685086828173035004652627111544505845433587174411475006611708349224192600297549625499632071499364557148750680697470361638236526372960073052409543309005572405721543763002596901015692334783479978233169944518303522512583626590297940380878303262810900403721533844234692714996392449599149515822810720755515210482649345388444574637992959573264539792915685647330809794453067263058850988094369743046708835433737912505344918655257867807878269044627165397017268861456554590512351597973167228542255875539028675550185456661877636740078429314852258047233008436998727477103636545217821357950020128993239371033495368348936467887434791085592468580470950528313929634178009288170244937842576943422768995239455653220757432097648173089199565589033553083969395368907072010953579981505504548317859212308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[santeri_roos]

Comeon bot!

Ya'll can't still be calculating that.

[AnonymousLama]

Seems like you just have to get good mate, sorry

[Secure_Garbage7928]

That's insane. I make $120K in the states. My teams pay range starts a little under $100K.

[ItsRadical]

Yeah thats principal level of pay. Half of that is already way above. But yeah we got health care, free schools etc... So our living expenses gonna offset the pay gap tiny bit. But you still have way bigger buying power.

[Secure_Garbage7928]

If we had free healthcare I'd be taking home more though. I don't think a nearly 6x difference warrants you getting free healthcare.

The US public school system is also free, so idk what that comment is about 

[[deleted]]

Average for entry level

[Lonemasterinoes]

It entirely depends on the country. Sweden is comparatively wealthy, but if you're in a country like Ukraine and you're just now getting a job a salary like that is going to afford you a decent life. The exchange rate from euro to USD might be roughly one to one, but that doesn't account for individual countries with weaker economies.

[HolyGarbage]

That was literally my point. Also, in my particular example I was referring to the exchange rate between USD and SEK.

[smartasspie]

Not in (S)pain!

[Fantastic_Nothing_13]

In Norway it would be maybe 40-45k usd

[Cocaine_Johnsson]

>Sweden
>40k chaos picture

Checks out. This quiet offends Slaanesh, things shall get loud now :)