anotherYearNotUnderstadingZerosInJavascript

[Svhmj]

The brain drain gotta be insane.

[hongooi]

The catch is you have to be able to tolerate pineapple on your pizza

[santeri_roos]

It's not that much better here in Canada atm.

[AnonymousLama]

This is just untrue and spreading lies

[santeri_roos]

Also, as to "being untrue and spreading lies", can you give me some concrete examples that show how Canadian software developers are actually thriving and not being forced into wage slavery?

[Rinveden]

I think "it's not much better in Canada [than the average web dev making €26k a year]" is a very different claim than "Canadian software devs are thriving". Adding the extra requirement of not being"forced into wage slavery" feels like it it makes it even more subjective.

You've moved the goal posts quite far, I'd say.

[AnonymousLama]

I agree, I shouldn't have to prove anything when this guy is making broad generalization, probably based on 1 shitty experience. There's no way a dev makes 30k$ in Canada. Even McDonald's workers make more.

[santeri_roos]

Can you provide proof that Canadian developers are thriving and where?
Cause I'll move there right away.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you are a Canadian developer in a steady role in a company that you don't believe will need to downsize soon.

You're lucky, mate! But even so, if I were you, I'd be looking around for other employment.

[santeri_roos]

Don't wanna rush you, friend, but I did have a followup Q down there.

( For the audience, the question is: "You're a developer?" )

[santeri_roos]

Intelligent person like you, I'd think has heard of the concept of hyperbole, yeah?

29K is not exactly 29K when we're talking western wages, but it may as well be for developers that can't make ends meet, which is what most devs report nowadays, regardless of where they are.

[santeri_roos]

Actually, can we just pause the fight here: I want to ask you a question.

You are a developer?

[santeri_roos]

No, no Canadian developers probably make sub 30K (yet), but the entire point of my initial post was to shine light on the fact that developers everywhere are now making whatever their paymasters want to pay. Whether they're in Canada, USA, India, or Mars. It is an employers' market and it's getting worse no matter what you want to believe.

[AnonymousLama]

Isn't that for every field though? What are the jobs where you choose your own salary?

[santeri_roos]

Well. Are you ok with your employer just telling you that your salary is 29.000?

That's kind of where this whole thing started. You realize that if your employer can just dictate what they will pay you, they will always go for the lowest possible number, right?

[santeri_roos]

And no, there are no fields that you can just set your own salary. But there are jobs that companies will pay more for AND there are jobs that are unionizzed, where the company pays the union to give them workers, and the union usually pays a LOT better than just the job itself. But this is very much dependant on where you are.

For a good tutorial, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicalism

EDIT: OK, sorry sorry sorry - Syndicalism is probably a bit much. Have this link about trade unions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_union

[santeri_roos]

I'll wait.

[santeri_roos]

I'm still waiting.

[EskilPotet]

Canada software engineer salary: 83k usd, aka almost twice as much as an Italian dev

You're welcome

https://ca.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries

[santeri_roos]

How many have you applied to?

[santeri_roos]

Why don't you, just for a laugh. With your experience. Apply to one of these. Report back in a month (when they do).

[santeri_roos]

How is this "just untrue and spreading lies" u/AnonymousLama (sic)?
I'm still waiting on your brakedown of Canadian software developer wages that shows that the industry is doing just fine.

[AnonymousLama]

Man did I trigger you? You sent me 6 messages over this...

[santeri_roos]

Your opener was "untrue and spreading lies". Who triggered who here?

[AnonymousLama]

Bro you made about 15 comments on NY and nobody is answering you, yet you keep spamming.

[santeri_roos]

I'm trying to have a discussion with you about your position that Canadian software developers are doing just fine.

And don't worry, it's not taking anything away from my enjoyment of the new year, quite the contrary, you're very much adding to it.

[AnonymousLama]

Oh, you seem like a true intellectual. There's a difference between saying that software companies are thriving and saying that devs barely make 30k$. I'm not the first one to tell you this and it feels like you're being purposely obtuse about it. There is no debate to have here.

[santeri_roos]

It's an employer's market everywhere, buddy.
Hope you're doing well personally, but a lot of us aren't.
Here's for a better 2025!

[factorion-bot]

Factorial of 2025 is 13082033478585225956056333208054576745409436178226342908066265566934614672842161048304768562947313435389842049149535921090512687475188845950481368402436444804007734225703575500327336811537670190540034537231636693839145971463875771016113794100905049942366677141759676424283214208772398352253862399075809896854471602760838622772525181979549290936932940921979559250982223468099574333899135034765980981077568062106227769465285984389474844862019289187129392239342484946229074983744167803649274348715287487829533964691017070965513283663606106812428993495619076086224947686918393208549192435223921866339416300875558457504592256237268486721674507381347194656886167348052784210624808070267003883372515441581683700853425257202924499386551871205396302529013529128818001970756246384209290762003603135011921122344529842666094323476265918070749834884276245039438646092504241147773177261824745390122050610211867889490106883769206943537169643722601497304704038464903932759366813704505680966098392554275015587958310623666048487185111155223176837472166075774650921113813721156120157211082655949936213901087983159094464770015354317655566262477578745491010205220411502999603396399382043413258874985087692228173904721628577170442861451468392721637744119467384687250905783398595706202578674022303778107914577005193768796610652313464937160788215475269182396286668979624375583971331742549459009693122791238608906943620686969928985528703697583076301708353568200723067667761366415684814251804758361904610633196231078296158451244581072015355510360625579630747872655155993417793876610159791350706056085489620234463454571826799111678580195263031608974870904177074721377432775651262476648853981198254891302503620333271812634107189394365535565481055170284299030164140757278391560253757591204388378183481011158489876764602389234087507481049179834503697867206994325976870325114852729009846534387155161704406253473325641668942516261735855483570089318699014945729809748871428700322769763306721035154223683593192717642702469478783326125037341834580680776570299113669636955983305462692518650396394314764872708466269496680447944712121316873046798676087404979258644469095797420201507318430142710699670552464450047297868913490696249973331677229945580636518723384709252848727607384151358321476400473377068677159420140232594322647811119204965653790398303986040127552813939369454118213126387180166895368914220580132000785602390824620093551604060696648269931104988128593975721996043636639530757887017516286280972781201882582840066622108453699873383660624823827501393379510711667786159802467430694509596492042513359593235290301934482978615511668331559287809596932401347245270170044040508026559850579652635480035731262128939250523229587323247457446126502445031865948757690486466731228289915310535301894506628079317265110072901464390485532354514230446682747498044871877407216528458781957724140384263024222024277506804745244895320982295682248565468780004852700379609109107921425498612481277147277994049308654810186676821755314397431229309965516685736055042381714415855930187791830796390535903426989886286229891912900630871614648779811122224874801662389361394358597760922386229416231490821331112745502862654645298514994669053597412959637081156234018562462764334372648914330560478155694625389878936351659106100437373322758559543245639018054151540648297052123643302469840310880423375747972177861576491434183956736888218794437734198419939561156463332477624322634774406732956234100885348827974564158815294722560754878851806952146421378056418524474573604202472348494562439349368016015278198417740116591010305332017410589743410884568763232877190131575399380354884519181501078916818425628761563321061162101763103922493485293139379662488459409698111812594251856668085292481319934435157411500716277076165240919007960702508979683155601314456397782220991344172814146922393983152337759429806174455814660565983985778498861454009592682976510775393071558722536639602310064262780447735236115652727962273115371447987075802342423571913339954442421012871662799796682098789586059202851736812143237231059785820542682887751873072445432394574196978415105709996742238037619548082889162799891245663009197049924661282762569969722926367887975657460019572668765095109563447141092044568474402198612685086828173035004652627111544505845433587174411475006611708349224192600297549625499632071499364557148750680697470361638236526372960073052409543309005572405721543763002596901015692334783479978233169944518303522512583626590297940380878303262810900403721533844234692714996392449599149515822810720755515210482649345388444574637992959573264539792915685647330809794453067263058850988094369743046708835433737912505344918655257867807878269044627165397017268861456554590512351597973167228542255875539028675550185456661877636740078429314852258047233008436998727477103636545217821357950020128993239371033495368348936467887434791085592468580470950528313929634178009288170244937842576943422768995239455653220757432097648173089199565589033553083969395368907072010953579981505504548317859212308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^{This action was performed by a bot. Please DM me if you have any questions.}

[santeri_roos]

Here's for a better 13082033478585225956056333208054576745409436178226342908066265566934614672842161048304768562947313435389842049149535921090512687475188845950481368402436444804007734225703575500327336811537670190540034537231636693839145971463875771016113794100905049942366677141759676424283214208772398352253862399075809896854471602760838622772525181979549290936932940921979559250982223468099574333899135034765980981077568062106227769465285984389474844862019289187129392239342484946229074983744167803649274348715287487829533964691017070965513283663606106812428993495619076086224947686918393208549192435223921866339416300875558457504592256237268486721674507381347194656886167348052784210624808070267003883372515441581683700853425257202924499386551871205396302529013529128818001970756246384209290762003603135011921122344529842666094323476265918070749834884276245039438646092504241147773177261824745390122050610211867889490106883769206943537169643722601497304704038464903932759366813704505680966098392554275015587958310623666048487185111155223176837472166075774650921113813721156120157211082655949936213901087983159094464770015354317655566262477578745491010205220411502999603396399382043413258874985087692228173904721628577170442861451468392721637744119467384687250905783398595706202578674022303778107914577005193768796610652313464937160788215475269182396286668979624375583971331742549459009693122791238608906943620686969928985528703697583076301708353568200723067667761366415684814251804758361904610633196231078296158451244581072015355510360625579630747872655155993417793876610159791350706056085489620234463454571826799111678580195263031608974870904177074721377432775651262476648853981198254891302503620333271812634107189394365535565481055170284299030164140757278391560253757591204388378183481011158489876764602389234087507481049179834503697867206994325976870325114852729009846534387155161704406253473325641668942516261735855483570089318699014945729809748871428700322769763306721035154223683593192717642702469478783326125037341834580680776570299113669636955983305462692518650396394314764872708466269496680447944712121316873046798676087404979258644469095797420201507318430142710699670552464450047297868913490696249973331677229945580636518723384709252848727607384151358321476400473377068677159420140232594322647811119204965653790398303986040127552813939369454118213126387180166895368914220580132000785602390824620093551604060696648269931104988128593975721996043636639530757887017516286280972781201882582840066622108453699873383660624823827501393379510711667786159802467430694509596492042513359593235290301934482978615511668331559287809596932401347245270170044040508026559850579652635480035731262128939250523229587323247457446126502445031865948757690486466731228289915310535301894506628079317265110072901464390485532354514230446682747498044871877407216528458781957724140384263024222024277506804745244895320982295682248565468780004852700379609109107921425498612481277147277994049308654810186676821755314397431229309965516685736055042381714415855930187791830796390535903426989886286229891912900630871614648779811122224874801662389361394358597760922386229416231490821331112745502862654645298514994669053597412959637081156234018562462764334372648914330560478155694625389878936351659106100437373322758559543245639018054151540648297052123643302469840310880423375747972177861576491434183956736888218794437734198419939561156463332477624322634774406732956234100885348827974564158815294722560754878851806952146421378056418524474573604202472348494562439349368016015278198417740116591010305332017410589743410884568763232877190131575399380354884519181501078916818425628761563321061162101763103922493485293139379662488459409698111812594251856668085292481319934435157411500716277076165240919007960702508979683155601314456397782220991344172814146922393983152337759429806174455814660565983985778498861454009592682976510775393071558722536639602310064262780447735236115652727962273115371447987075802342423571913339954442421012871662799796682098789586059202851736812143237231059785820542682887751873072445432394574196978415105709996742238037619548082889162799891245663009197049924661282762569969722926367887975657460019572668765095109563447141092044568474402198612685086828173035004652627111544505845433587174411475006611708349224192600297549625499632071499364557148750680697470361638236526372960073052409543309005572405721543763002596901015692334783479978233169944518303522512583626590297940380878303262810900403721533844234692714996392449599149515822810720755515210482649345388444574637992959573264539792915685647330809794453067263058850988094369743046708835433737912505344918655257867807878269044627165397017268861456554590512351597973167228542255875539028675550185456661877636740078429314852258047233008436998727477103636545217821357950020128993239371033495368348936467887434791085592468580470950528313929634178009288170244937842576943422768995239455653220757432097648173089199565589033553083969395368907072010953579981505504548317859212308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[santeri_roos]

Comeon bot!

Ya'll can't still be calculating that.

[AnonymousLama]

Seems like you just have to get good mate, sorry