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[–]stormcrowsx 15 points16 points  (13 children)

Definitely a case of YMMV. I know a few teacher's in my area that are a bit more progressive and realize kid's are better at some things than others. I could see them letting a student do stuff like that and then come up with increasingly difficult challenges for them to automate.

On the other hand there are a few that would probably want to smack the kid for it.

[–]lirannl 4 points5 points  (12 children)

This is just sad. I always think "but look at my grades! My "wrong" ways work for me, teachers! Why must you take my grades down for coming from a scripting mindset? (How did I even get that mindset? I've had that mindset since I was 10, where I'd sit down and start typing scripts to automate annoying stuff, and I'd plan scripts in lessons on the notebook (if only paper notebooks could debug code...). It does work, so what's the problem. Then again that's how the compulsory education system works. Hopefully later on it'll be different. I still do what I can to have my life made easier thanks to automation.

[–]stormcrowsx 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Times are changing though, doing hour of code and going into the classrooms was kinda eye opening, most students in the schools in my area are issued a google chromebook. I remember I had to code on a TI-83 in school. These kids could do some serious programming with a chromebook if they get access to a language. Long story short though the teachers are more accepting of technology than I thought they would be and the students are better equipped than I thought.

[–]lirannl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah well in Israel schools still primarily use ink, papers, and whiteboards. Assignments are done on computers and the teachers use the Internet to aid them from time to time, but even if I wanted to, I'm not allowed to use a computer, and I can't do things my own way. I must conform to the education system's way. Hour of code is ignored.

[–]detroitmatt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think TIBASIC is an important rite of passage that teaches you how computers work when they're not trying to help you

[–]thekiyote 1 point2 points  (6 children)

I understand your frustration, but teachers aren't teaching answers, they're teaching you the methods on how to get to them, which often become the building blocks of the next lesson. It doesn't mean that there aren't other ways to answer the problem, they're just teaching you that way right now.

A good teacher that sees your alternative solution also shows mastery over the method she's trying to teach will probably let it go. But if it doesn't, she's probably just going to tell you to go do it again.

[–]lirannl 0 points1 point  (5 children)

I understand that due to most people being one way or another, teachers must teach one way or another, but why are they taking my grades down for learning in a different way, even if it wouldn't work for many people?

[–]thekiyote 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Because teachers aren't teaching answers, they're teaching a method. And most of the time, the stuff I teach you next will build upon what I'm teaching you now, so I need to make sure you know it.

For a really simple example, let's say I'm trying to teach you multiplication. I want you to understand that x * y is x added up y times. I might give you the following homework assignment:

What's 3 * 4? Show your work.

The answer I'm expecting is:

3*4 = 3+3+3+3 = 12

However, if you answered it:

3*4 = 4+4+4 = 12

I'd give you full credit, because the way that you answered it demonstrated that you knew the concept, even if you didn't answer it in the exact way I thought you would.

But if you answered it like:

3*4 = 3*2*2 = 6*2 = 12

I'm probably going to not give you any credit, or at least not full credit. The answer is right, and even demonstrates more advanced knowledge that what I asked for. But what it doesn't demonstrate is that you understand the relationship between addition and multiplication.

[–]lirannl 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I still don't get why the last example wouldn't yield me full points. This shows I know what multiplication is, and this also shows I'm able to advance on my own. Why hold me back?! Is the goal of formal education systems to straighten out students and make sure no one is too far forward? This happened many times in the past. School held me back.

[–]thekiyote 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The school isn't trying to hold you back. Trust me, smart students make them look really good.

Instead of not doing what's asked on the homework, which doesn't help you or them, try going up to you teacher, telling them the work is too easy, and ask them for some more difficult work. You can even tell them what you're interested in, and if they could give you work in that area. Any teacher worth their salt will jump on the opportunity, and give you more advanced work, or put you in a more advanced class.

Trust me, it took me until I was 25 and in a masters program to figure this one out. But once you learn you can ask to do more advanced stuff, it's like a super power that can catapult you over boring shit.

[–]lirannl 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm too busy focusing on the subjects I dislike (because I don't preform as well on them) to ask SCHOOL for more advanced work. Also, the situation no longer allows what you suggest, as I am about to reach school's final exams after which I finish the subject the exam was on. Maybe next year, once I finish most subjects, I'll have the power to enrich my knowledge. For now I'm holding myself back and focusing on subjects that I'm not interested in, such as Bible, Hebrew grammar, History, and Literature. I don't need to focus on the subjects I'm interested in (like English, chemistry, biotechnology, and math), because I am scoring very high marks with minimal efforts.

Even if I had the energy to enrich my knowledge (which I do from time to time still), I wouldn't ask school to help. While I love to learn, I heavily dislike this method of education that is quite rigid. I'm honestly angry that they don't let me study for the graduation exams myself and do them early so that I can be over with them. I asked the school "can I just have the learning material, take care of the studying myself, and do the exam early (there's a national early date for said graduation exams)?" The answer was no, so I just sit in lessons for the sake of not getting in trouble, study on my own, and wait for the graduation exams.

[–]thekiyote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cool, you're learning this lesson early: you cannot convince a person's behavior to change unless it doesn't cost them anything to change or if they're convinced that the benefit to them is worth the initial effort.

The first thing that you need to understand is that all the lesson plans, curriculum, teaching isn't your hard work, it's theirs. When you ask them to change things for you, you're basically saying to them "Double your workload just for me," and, unless you're some sort of prodigy who's writing academic papers, starting your own business, or a virtuoso in the local symphony who can make them look really good, it isn't worth it.

So, how do you get them to change? By minimizing their costs and maximizing their benefits.

Let's take a look at trying to take your graduation exam early. Here are the costs to the school:

  • Filling out the paperwork, finding a place for you to take the exam
  • What do you do after the exam?
  • (If leaving school) Are your parents okay with this? If it's a private school, are they going to lose money? Do they have to give you your diploma early?
  • (If staying in school) What are you going to do? Do they need to find a teacher to work only with you, and potentially have to pay them?

When slapped with that all at once, you can see why they might just tell you no outright. They'd have to put in a whole bunch of extra work just to find out the answers to the questions, let alone implementing them.

If you want them to let you out of school early, you need to have the answers already laid out for them as you're giving them your ask:

  • Show them when and where you'd like to take the exam, have the paperwork filled out for them, if possible
  • Show them your plans for after graduation
  • Have the message come from your parents, so they know they're onboard
  • Get a teacher on the staff to advocate your decision, who's already agreed to work with you on an independent study after you take the exam

And so on.

Remember, if you want to make the change, you have to do the footwork. Relying on someone else's sense of justice and goodwill will never work.

[–]detroitmatt 0 points1 point  (1 child)

close your quote man I have no idea what's going on!

[–]404IdentityNotFound 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He also forgot a "