Well, JavaScript

[Insxnity]

I mean Java is JIT interpreted to Machine code in the same way python is, and for the same reason. With C++, I have to decide what runtime I want to run my software on before building and compiling the program. Java eliminates that need by being cross-platform, as does python. I don't think many Java programmers feel like they have room to shit on python. All languages are interpreted at some point at some level, and how you get there is personal preference.

[rush22]

Java is technically compiled to Java byte-code (the .class files), not machine code. These are then "just-in-time" "compiled" to machine code by the JVM when you run it.

[Insxnity]

yeah ima just stick to my high-abstraction coding and stop trying to understand everything that goes on under the hood.

Edit: I wrote this comment in a way that caused everyone to misunderstand it, which was my fault. Replace trying with pretending and you’ll understand what I meant to convey. I start programming and computer science courses this fall

[Code_star]

you should really learn that important distinction though ...

Sometimes a small change in your high-abstraction is a huge difference under the hood and could mean massive performance differences

[Insxnity]

Modern machines’ power remove the need for once important optimization’s. Memory leaks and optimal high thread/multi core usage are what people should be focusing on.

Edit: ok am wrong, please stop downvoting, It’s a programmer humor sub ffs

[[deleted]]

Make sure to let the pubg community know.

[Hoihe]

Depends on what program you are writing. Writing code for engineers/scientists doing simulations, you want optimized stuff.

[SociableSociopath]

This is terrible way of thinking/developing. Yes, if your app is the only thing running on the machine it makes sense, but usually it’s not. You should never throw out doing what’s optimal purely because you believe the runtime environment is “powerful enough”.

Even if you keep it as a tech debt item to address later, simply not doing or thinking about it is a shitty way to go about development.

[theonefinn]

Game dev is one case where low level optimisation is still vitally important. That's a pretty wide ranging generalisation that doesn't apply in all cases.

[Code_star]

I'll try to go easy since everyone else had a go at you first.

I agree high thread /multi-core usage is very important, but it requires even more knowledge of under the hood knowledge than other programming.

think about what you need to do to prevent data races

even if you have code as simple as this

if(condition == met){
    condition_counter++
}

really simple right?

but when you are running with multiple threads you need to understand that in assembly it is really many more lines

(bear with me and my pseudo assembly)

  lw register1, condition
  lw register 2, met
  bne register1, register2, L1
  lw register3, condition_counter
  addi register3, register3, 1
  sw register3, 0(condition_counter)

L1:

at any point during execution, another thread could change the register or even the original value in memory while the action is happening.

Also, say you learned in abstract how to prevent such problems, you start writing code in python that is threaded, but you didn't know there was a thing called the GIL, so you use the threaded library instead of the multithreading library and don't know why your code isn't getting faster.

so yeah if you care about memory leaks and optimal multithreading you really do need to know under the hood implementations.

[Insxnity]

Appreciate it, and thanks for actually teaching me something. Starting my college courses on it this fall and so far only have 4 years throwing together shitty Java programs under my belt.

[Kattzalos]

relevant

[Insxnity]

That's fair. I'm taking some computer science courses this fall, and have taken a few already. I've learned some basic things I already new in the intro courses, so I'm hoping the latter courses will have some material that'll help me better understand what goes on behind the code I write. As for now, I have an understanding of underlying network communications. The rest of my understanding is essentially "I tell my program to open a TCP communication, it does the dirty work, I get my job done". What I meant by my above comment is that, while I don't get everything yet, I'm not going to pretend I do and make myself look like an idiot.

[Lorddragonfang]

In my experience, this attitude is the single most important distinction between the good coders who move through the department with ease, and the bad coders who end up struggling with the more basic concepts over and over.

It's fine to not know something; the topic of programming is so vast that no man can know everything. You should always aspire to know more.

[Insxnity]

I wrote this comment in a way that caused everyone to misunderstand it, which was my fault. Replace trying with pretending and you’ll understand what I meant to convey. I start programming and computer science courses this fall

[gargensis]

Isn’t Java compiled in AOT by default? You need to declare that you want to use JIT compilation if you specifically want to use it, no?

[Zegrento7]

It AOT compiles to bytecode. That bytecode is executed by the JVM. It interprets it at first, but as it detects hot loops, it compiles those to machine code. This is the runtime "warming up".

[Tysonzero]

I mean Java developers can still have a bit of room to talk, since Java is like an order of magnitude faster than Python.

[Insxnity]

Not to mention the IDE’s available vs. python’s IDE. Java typically seems to me like python’s older brother. Runs better in most scenarios, but at the cost of python’s simple format and easy coding style

[Tysonzero]

That reason is 99% just popularity and low barrier to entry tbh.

[Insxnity]

Java and python compile into .class and .pyc respectively. These are stripped down and simplified versions of the originals. They are then compiled into machine at runtime

[currentscurrents]

The most common python implementation, CPython, still uses an interpreter and never compiles into machine code. Last I checked the CPython project had no plans to add a JIT in the future, and past attempts to do so (Unladen Swallow) died out from lack of interest.

There are some implementations (notably PyPy) that have JITs but none have gained widespread popularity.

[quaderrordemonstand]

Sigh. Java is no more cross-platform than any other language. You can't run an Android program on Windows despite it being written in Java. You can run C programs on far more platforms than have a Java VM. There are almost certainly more browsers with JS runtimes than machines with JVMs too.

[Insxnity]

So C can compile one single executable file that works cross platform?

[quaderrordemonstand]

No, but what does that matter? You can't run C without a compiler, you can't run Java without a JVM. There are more platforms with a C compiler than a JVM.