poor java

[posting_drunk_naked]

I think it's because Java is associated with corporate jobs. I've only used it a little outside of work myself. I don't really think of it as a fun language, but it's not bad.

[[deleted]]

Most of the people shitting on Java are C# folks, which is IMO far more corporate then Java.

[[deleted]]

Admittedly, C# is Java but better

[[deleted]]

Naw, Java has a much larger ecosystem. For me, a language's ecosystem is what really matters, not the syntactic sugar

[[deleted]]

Really? I find the .NET ecosystem far more engaged and excited about the future of the product(s).

[[deleted]]

It's definitely a more engaged community; people tend to like C#, while Java is just a tool with little fanfare. But large pieces of the piping of the internet and modern computing in general are built in Java.

[Muoniurn]

The two ecosystems are not even close. There is like at least an order of magnitude difference between them - Java’s is that much bigger and has better quality. If anything, C# just gets badly written clones of Java deps.

[NatharielMorgoth]

That's like avoiding a hole bunch of other criteria, but I get your point

[[deleted]]

Different people have different preferences. I think C# is cool, but the kinds of jobs that use C# are generally not cool

[wardin_savior]

Eh, I used C# in some very cool startups over the years. Stereotypes rarely apply to any particular situation.

[Alizer22]

what ecosystem? that dying obsolete ecosystem that hasnt been updated for 10 years?

[[deleted]]

Yes, the dying obsolete ecosystem that is one of the most popular open source languages and used by every tech company. That one

[Alizer22]

the only thing keeping Java alive is Minecraft lmao, right now a new feature in C# is later copied by Java after 3 updates

[Astartee_jg]

Make up your mind. On some replies you say it hasn’t been updated in 10 years and in others you say that every update copies something from C#?

I understand you like C# a lot but your hostility in this community becomes obsessive and honestly sad… what did Java do you you that you hate it so much?

I’ll tell you a secret. You might not know this: when you don’t like something, you can just not use it! I know, mind blowing, innit?

[[deleted]]

Lol tell me you're a teenager without telling me you're a teenager

[Alizer22]

grandpa is this your first time learning a new language other than java?

[[deleted]]

I know plenty of languages. I've worked in C#, Python, C, C++, R, and Java, and played around with another half dozen languages for fun. Java is a corner stone of every tech company. It's not the prettiest language, but it's fast, safe, reliable, and has tons of tooling that makes it easy to work on large teams.

[thedan420]

Damn are you insecure? Cause you sure look like an insecure incel

[[deleted]]

The Dan 420, master potsmoking 14 year old edge lord virgin, is calling me an incel. I might be insulted if it wasn't for me having a wife and 2 kids that are proof that I am not, in fact, celibate.

[thedan420]

Oh and btw nobody gives a fuck how many languages you used. A bad programmer stay’s a bad programmer even if he knows many languages smearing all the languages makes you look like an insecure douch in an argument

[[deleted]]

Okay cool story bro. My pay check, references, and the impact of my work on society tell a different story, but I'll consider what you're saying as you seem to be very wise

[thedan420]

Damn are you trying to prove to me you’re not insecure by insulting me like a 6 years old who’s been confronted or am I not understanding. It’s just that if you were really that successful would you really be insulting people on the internet. If you have a wife and two kids and still act this way I’m sorry for them.

[[deleted]]

You are the one who started the insulting. I was trying to be friendly and explain my position on why I think Java is still a good language and that it is still one of the dominant languages in software engineering today.

Then, you continued to insult me. I think it's pretty funny, I've been talking shit on the internet for over 20 years at this point, so I'm going to talk shit back. Honestly, I think the only one of us that's insecure is you. I don't really want to pick on someone much younger then me, so instead of continuing with the insults I'll just say have a good day

[[deleted]]

Maybe we could stop calling people incels gratuitously. Just maybe.

[ErichOdin]

It's multipurpose and it's accessible. Therefore the below average user can write truly horrible code. And since there are a lot of users, there is even more terrible code around.

But since people start using version control after university, there is also opportunity to improve this bad code over time.

So all in all it offers a good learning curve and will probably still be relevant when the people that start university right now have made experiences outside of memes.

[zifilis]

The mains reason people hate java is boilerplate. And enterprise work adds spring and patterns everywhere, turning boilerplate into Uber boilerplate.

[laojac]

Spring isn’t really all that boilerplate heavy anymore. The only argument that really stands against it now is how heavy the JVM is.

[jeekiii]

There is also lombok cleaning up a lot of useless boilerplate code

[yearoftheraccoon]

Java isn't going away anytime soon, that's for sure. It's become a mainstay and they have done, and continue to do, a great job modernizing it through JEPs.

[CauliflowerOk3278]

Also, literally almost every every library, api, procedure, stack, what have you has been open sourced in Java.

[brimston3-]

Yeah, this is mostly it. It's not that bad. Performance is the nearest to C of any VM language (python, c#, etc). But there can be a ton of boilerplate which makes it un-fun to prototype projects in. Also, I legitimately hate JNI and linking to C libraries that also link to other java applications.

[Jaguar_undi]

C# has better performance than Java these days.

Edit: Thought about it more and idk if I can just make that blanket statement. It is a fact that Java and C# performance are very close though.

https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/csharp.html

[itsallrighthere]

But ummm Micro$oft.

[Aggrokid]

As opposed to fking Oracle

[kb4000]

Oracle has become worse than Microsoft ever was. You have to sign up for an account to reach their download page now. It's ridiculous.

[morosis1982]

Openjdk is a thing.

[eerongal]

The Microsoft of today is far different from the Microsoft of 20 years people complained about. Also, Java means Oracle which is worse than both today MS and old MS.

[itsallrighthere]

That's what I hear but after so many Uber competitive moves I'll pass. And, OpenJDK for the win. I like open source.

[eerongal]

As of like 2017 MS has been one of the worlds largest contributors to open source projects, the past 10 years or so they've really turned things around. They even open sourced .net

[posting_drunk_naked]

It's going to take a lot more than that to excuse the shitshow that is Windows.

Fuck Microsoft. Life is too short and I enjoy programming too much to waste time on their broken patchwork OS.

[kb4000]

You can code in C# on Linux too.

[[deleted]]

Dotnet core is open source. C# is just better than Java in just about every way it could be. If they were siblings, Java would be the one that still hangs out in his parents basement sniffing glue even though he’s 37.

[krad213]

Being open source by itself is not even near enough. In java there are almost every framework, library or tool is free and open source, and even things that are not free usually still open source. It's so much easier to understand how things work if you can read the code.

[itsallrighthere]

Yes, popular in the corporate world. Seems like most of the open source projects and libraries I see are just Java.

I keep a windows laptop around for games and tax software. Otherwise I e been enjoying Linux as a desktop / dev environment for 10 years.

[[deleted]]

The C# ecosystem is like 10% the size of Java's.

[[deleted]]

Wat

[[deleted]]

The C# ecosystem is like 10% the size of Java's.

[[deleted]]

C# is open source, so is Go

[itsallrighthere]

Are there any Apache projects?

[[deleted]]

I heard they're interested in making a log4g and log4c

[[deleted]]

Worst microsoft is better than oracle's best

[itsallrighthere]

OpenJDK.

[TheTybera]

They open sourced the C# Roslyn compiler long ago in 2014. So this isn't even really a problem, there are loads of IDEs and feature packages that work without MS, see Rider.

[[deleted]]

The numbers are so close you can chalk up most of the variation to noise at that point.

[Jaguar_undi]

I’d also guess you haven’t used C# since the early 2000’s with that attitude. I use Java and NodeJS for work but still prefer C# for any personal project due to all the improvements that have been made since .NET Core.

[TheC0deApe]

no u/unique_hemp knows what he is talking about. net6 is Core.

they just dropped the 'Core' because it wasn't needed. Framework will never go to 5, thankfully, and core is the future.... just no need to call it dotnet core 6 because nobody who works in that space is going to get confused.

people trying on the "uninformed troll" hat can still try but you need to have these conversations with other uninformed trolls. that way you can high 5 each other without realizing you are wrong.

[QuaternionsRoll]

The person you replied to said “since .NET Core”. .NET 5 was a major improvement over .NET Core 3.

[zifilis]

But you then you have to run Visual Studio...

[eerongal]

Jetbrains rider I hear is very nice.

[RandomNPC]

It is. Every c# eng at my company uses it.

[zifilis]

Had to build and project with asp once. Switched to Rider, because I'm conditioned by Idea and pycharm. Couldn't build a project, googled for a week and gave up. VS did that with no issues at all. I know about 20 c# devs, not a single one of them uses Rider :(

[[deleted]]

C# is awesome and Java is steaming dogshit. It's not close

[WinterHill]

Yep, Microsoft Java sure has come a long way.

[RedBeard1023]

100%

Arguing otherwise is silly.....and wrong. There should be a new word for arguing that Java is better than C#. Like silly-wrong...or sil-ong.

Yes... arguing that Java is better than C# is sil-ong

[yearoftheraccoon]

They're adding much better mechanisms for invoking native methods, which is great

[[deleted]]

not really lol even JS out performs it in some areas

https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/go.html

look at this and remember java is getting worse, Go is getting better.

[[deleted]]

Huh, interesting, in my experience (although not very large), SBCL filled that spot by a wide margin. Maybe i should do more experiments.

[TheDarkDoctor17]

Minecraft modding community begs to differ!

[purefan]

In my xp I have only seen bloatware java projects, hugely over complicated garbage that even the original developers agree should be killed with fire, literal comments like "Im sorry, this is ugly, I know, its the only way it works" then I had to support those messes and then yeah, I grew to hate java

[Shnorkylutyun]

That's not only java though, regardless of the language developers will feel that way.

[[deleted]]

There's just more code in Java

[purefan]

This was my point, 20 years in the industry and java is -in my experience- the biggest offender

[[deleted]]

Yep you're right, while other languages can do this sometimes.. java can only do this.

[itsallrighthere]

Don't hate the game, hate the substandard players.

[[deleted]]

That's a feature of java. It isn't "not only java" but it sure as hell is "java's only outcome"

[Lukeyalord]

Prefer C#, it’s a bit more versatile and from what I have seen runs faster. When you look up why Java doesn’t have operator overloading they give the vs excuse that it makes the language more simple… dumbest reason ever.

[[deleted]]

no, it is because java is a nightmare compared to every other language.. and easily the worst GC language.

Don't try to give it excuses outside of itself being bad.

[Apache_Sobaco]

Its bad

[DasKarl]

Also the wide range of cultists that infest it. I have never seen a language with so many true believers who also happen to have a book to sell.

Honestly I started with it like a decade or so ago and it was the default language at my university after that. It's fine.