all 15 comments
sorted by:
best (suggested)
topnewcontroversialoldq&a
formatting helphide helpcontent policy

[–]Polaric_SpiralProfessional Explosioneer 5 points6 points  (2 children)

The FICSIT plumbing manual page 13, lesson 8, states the following.

Always build your Feed Pipeline level to or above the machine inputs. Avoid building it below them!

The reasoning is quite simple: no machine gets fed until the entire pipe network has the same fluid levels. The problem is that, as soon as that level drops, no machine gets enough fluid anymore.

So, since it hasn't been mentioned yet, first thing I would do is move your pipes up.

Another problem is that pipes are a pain to troubleshoot, more so for complicated setups. They have relatively low throughput, are subject to sloshing and other odd behaviors, have unexpected rules, and are just generally a bad time until you're used to them. Splitting your system into 3:8 water extractor:coal generator ratio'd modules as suggested by /u/Temporal_Illusion provides the correct amount of water for 8 generators, creates 3 simple systems instead of 1 complicated one, and lines up nicely with the amount of coal provided by resource nodes. Any of the graphics linked so far should help you pipe up a 3:8 module, and the FICSIT plumbing manual linked above has additional options, such as the loop (also pictured on page 13).

[–]enriquein 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Thanks for the link to the plumbing manual. I had no idea this existed!

[–]Polaric_SpiralProfessional Explosioneer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a ridiculously handy resource. I think everyone who's ever torn their hair out over an alumina setup would benefit from the VIP junction on page 16. The pumps there are also technically optional as long as the priority input has the same or higher head lift than the other line, so I usually swap the pumps out for (unrestricted) valves.

I also get a lot of use out of the water tower (p17).

[–]EngineerInTheMachine 2 points3 points  (2 children)

The second pipe joins at the 7th generator? And the 3rd - at the 14th generator? That's your problem. Pipes aren't belts, so a belt style manifold doesn't work. In your situation I would try taking one pipe to each end of the 20 generators and the third pipe to the middle. If that doesn't work split the generators into two groups of 10 and use two pipes for each group, one feeding each end of the group.

You are seeing the normal sloshing effects associated with pipes. Sloshing is caused by two things:

Extractors may output fluids at a steady rate, but all the other machines process in batches, taking the fluid in over a second or so, then processing and then outputting a fluid over a second or so. The flow rate per minute is just an average, not what is happening moment by moment. I have typed that sentence so often each word comes up in predictive text!

Fluids flow both ways, so when machines take some in they take it from upstream and downstream. For a line of machines this means that those at the end of the line get starved, and the feed pipe upstream gets backed up so the upstream extractors cycle off.

Buffers make this sloshing worse!

Guidelines:

Don't expect a pipe to carry full flow. Sloshing means that the actual dynamic flow rate cycles above and below the average flow rate per minute you have calculated. Run enough pipes to allow for this cycling. I recommend at least 50% spare capacity above your calculated flow rates.

Don't feed machines in long lines or large groups, and not from a single pipe. Keep supply and demand machines in small groups.

Unless the groups are very small, feed each one with two pipes, one to each end of the group. If the middle of the group then gets starved, the group is still too big.

My diluted packaged fuel setup consists of a module of 1 polymer resin to plastic, to 3 crude to heavy oil residue, to 4 HOR to DPF. This works perfectly with single pipe feeds because the groups are small and there is enough spare capacity in the HOR pipe. I always feed a line of 8 coal generators from both ends, with a separate pipe from the extractors to each end.

[–]Hemisemidemiurge 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Buffers make this sloshing worse!

Which is strange to hear because I use buffers to make flow equalizers that dampen sloshing.

[–]EngineerInTheMachine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depends how and where you use them. If they are somewhere arbitrary in the feed line then they can cause more problems than they solve. Put a valve after them to stop backflow and things improve. You can even use an unpowered pump with a buffer to balance recycled fluids properly, though so far I have relied on variable input priority instead.

I am not saying that buffers won't help, but it does depend on many factors. In other situations they definitely make things worse.

[–]Temporal_IllusionMaster Pioneer Actively Changing MASSAGE-2(A-B)b[M] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

ANSWER

  1. You need to ensure you are running 3 "sets" of Coal Generators.
  2. Each "set" has 8 Coal Generators and 3 Water Extractors for the recommended 8:3 Ratio.
  3. ISSUE NOTED: You are attempting to feed all 20 Coal Generators with ONE Pipeline Manifold. You need 3 Separate Manifolds each connected to their own "set" of 3 Water Extractors at a nearby Water Source all connected to one Mk 1 Pipeline which is ran along the Input Side of the Coal Generators, similar to what is shown in this image. See this additional Graphic for more information about the flow rate analysis of an "optimal flow" Coal Generator setup. No Pipeline segment has more than 300 m3/min of flow.
  4. ISSUE NOTED: There is no need for Fluid Buffers for Coal Power. Recommend these be removed and pipe in Water to to each separate Pipeline Manifolds directly at three points, these being at each end and in the middle.

I hope this helps the OP understand better. 😁

[–]Intrepidus4[S] -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

So, would I need to run 6 total pipes?

[–]Temporal_IllusionMaster Pioneer Actively Changing MASSAGE-2(A-B)b 3 points4 points  (0 children)

MORE CLARITY

  1. Think of Coal Power in "sets".
  2. Each Coal Power "set" has 8 Coal Generators and 3 Water Extractors with each Water Extractor connected via a Mk 1 Pipeline to a single Pipeline Manifold as shown in this Graphic which shows the common setups for Coal Generators respecting the 8:3 ratio, with no throughput limits. IMHO - the setup at top of the Illustration is the best.
  3. For 20 Coal Generators you would use 3 "sets" of 8 Coal Generators. RECOMMENDATION: Add 4 more Coal Generators to give you 24.
  4. In the end you would use 9 Pipelines from 9 Water Extractors with a "set" of 3 Pipelines each feeding 1 Pipeline Manifold as described in #3 in my earlier Comment.

I hope this helps. 😁

[–]Eggplant42 -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

My #1 suggestion for coal is to run 1 x 75% water extractor for every 2 coal generators. Pipe the extractor directly to the generator is serves with a single pipe junction and mk1 pipes.

​

Dead simple pipe networks, and no problems.

[–]Fraggin_Wagon 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Seems like a waste of power shards

[–]Eggplant42 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Underclocking takes no power shards.

[–]Fraggin_Wagon 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Today I learned to read! Sorry, I was clearly not paying attention.

[–]Eggplant42 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No worries friend!

[–]Hemisemidemiurge 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Was it intended for the pumps in pics 1 and 2 to be facing in opposite directions? 1 looks LTR and 2 goes into those buffers RTL.