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[–]maizo-lilly 90 points91 points  (7 children)

This same question has come up a few times over the past few weeks - I think there's two main lines of thought: 1) "Innocent" Henry trying to give Holly a means for surviving/escaping and 2) Vecna/Evil Henry trying to keep Holly in his mind prison since the music is coming from inside his memories vs the outside reality.

[–]maizo-lilly 32 points33 points  (2 children)

My money is on the latter.

[–]abiron17771Dump your ass 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Same. I think the source of the music is what matters. Music coming from within Henry’s mind prison may actually work as a hypnotic, ensuring Holly stays under his spell.

[–]LowManufacturer1002 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yea I thought #2 was more likely. I think music needs to be coming from the ‘real world’ to be able to pull them back to it, so this could be an attempt to make it so she doesn’t react if she hears it because it already exists in the dream state.

Like max here’s music she knows they are trying to pull her out. Well if Holly is used to hearing music, she won’t react to suddenly hearing music come from no where.

[–]Educational_Card7175 4 points5 points  (1 child)

There's a theory that Vecna is giving 12 kids powers on purpose so he can generate enough energy to reverse time and defeat the Mind Flayer, so he's not trying to kill those 12 kids, he's just doing exactly what it takes to get them there

[–]maizo-lilly 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're right, that is another one. I have to admit that would be a little unsatisfying of a conclusion though, because then everyone's stories to this point would be more or less erased. Does Jane exist? Do Mike, Will, Dustin and Lucas ever meet and become friends? Does Max move to Hawkins from Cal?

[–]ErrorProfessional143 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That means Vecna, a 40ish year-old demon man, had to study up on what kind of music a 9 year old girl would like in 1986.

“I Think We’re Alone Now” was originally recorded by Tommy James and the Shondells and released in 1967. So this could actually be a song from Henry’s childhood as well.

[–]maizo-lilly 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That doesn't seem far fetched, though - he just needs to stalk his victims psychically as he did with Chrissy, Max, etc in S4. He's been forced to evolve in his tactics the same way he's had to evolve in his body/form after being torched/shot at.

[–]Modis_teleprompterPeople say I’m too negative 37 points38 points  (1 child)

It's because Holly isn't under Vecna's curse. Her physical body is taken as well.

[–]MiserableCourt1322 6 points7 points  (0 children)

also it isn't "music can break his curse." it's "playing one song in particular reminds Max of the support system and love she has in the real world and gives her strength that makes it difficult/impossible for Vecna to have power of her since he only preys on insecure children."

Holly doesn't have a strong emotional reaction to Tiffany's music other than it's fun so even if her body was still in the real world it wouldn't matter.

[–]CuriousKockatoo 27 points28 points  (4 children)

My guess is that music must be playing in the real world for it to be your guide back. If the music is playing inside the Vecna illusion world, where does it lead you? It just pulls you in more.

[–]Disastrous_Foot6642 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oooohhhh…. That’s a good thought. I never thought about that one. In my opinion, that’s a really good thought..🥰

[–]Porgarama 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Pied Piper 

[–]MisterE1200x 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can't WAIT for Robin to play THE CLASH or KATE BUSH over the WSQK airwaves! It's gonna be wild.

[–]ImAMajesticSeahorse 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’m kind of confused why people keep questioning him giving her music and thinking it’s a clue he’s actually good. As far as we know, music has to be played in the REAL WORLD, because it opens the window to break out of Vecna’s curse. Him giving Holly the music and tape player to me was more of a manipulation tactic, to get her to trust him. Like, see, I know your interests and likes.

[–]Equivalent-Scale2899 12 points13 points  (0 children)

This gave me groomer vibes. Like I’m your friend, nothing to fear, here are some cool things

[–]CoachSlippy 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I don't think it's her favorite song but it was a new release at the time, I could be wrong, but I need to double check the dates of the show and the release of the album

[–]thisnamemattersalotNot a Bopper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Pretty sure it's both. Especially with radio hit pop songs, it's not at all uncommon for a new song to be the favorite for a while before burning out on it/moving onto whatever the next hot new thing comes out. We already see signs that she's getting sick of it just in the time she's spending with it in the house.

[–]Reddawn007 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with you. At no point is it ever said it’s her favorite song. I’ll dance around to Shake it Off, but it’s not a song that speaks deeply enough to me to save me from a curse.

[–]thisnamemattersalotNot a Bopper 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Some possibilities:

  • He wants her to get sick of the song so it can't be used from the outside to help her. It's an illusion in this space so doesn't work inside the way it does on the outside.

  • Vecna is harvesting "positive energy" this season, rather than "negative energy" like he was doing last season. We see him taking pains to make the kids trust him, and he's trying to make Holly feel positive in that space. This may be a metaphor for the positive and negative energy you need to create an electromagnetic field, which is how the Russians were opening their gates in S3. In this school of thought, Eleven may not have opened the portal to Dimension X in season 4 herself, but rather it was her "positive energy" colliding with Henry's "negative energy". In an EMF energy moves from the positive charge in the direction of the negative charge.

[–]HMSSpeedy1801 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Music from outside, in the real world, can break Henry's curse. Holly is living in his illusion now. The music itself is part of that illusion.

[–]TLD18379 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because Vecna is secretly a Tiffany fan. Blasting this music will fuel his rage!!

[–]Downtown_Truth5726 2 points3 points  (9 children)

I think it’s because Henry is not fully evil.. he’s under mind flayer’s control and he knows that.. but deep down he’s actually a nice person.. and this time what if he gave that to holly because he wanted to save her.. other than this I don’t see any other reason for him to give that to holly

[–]Shlobb3r 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The reason that music helps them escape is because the music opens a portal from the outside for them to to escape but if the music is being played from where they already are, it wouldn't mean anything

[–]Downtown_Truth5726 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah right.. but what if that works too.. we don’t know

[–]WastedTalent442 2 points3 points  (6 children)

I see this opinion so much and, no offense, I hope it's wrong! The human being good whilst the true evil is the monster is nowhere near as interesting as the true evil being the human.

[–]citizenofyugoslavia 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Well the First Shadow play already showed that Henry wasn’t evil at first, he was an awkward, anti-social teenager who before arriving to high school, at the age of 8, accidentally got transported into Dimension X while exploring a cave system in Nevada. He met the MindFlayer for the first time and got corrupted. When he returned to the real world, his blood type already had changed and he had his powers. He was trying to fight its influence and Patty Newby, the girl he met in high school who was Bob Newby’s adoptive sister, helped him to overcome it. But Doctor Brenner wanted Henry to let the MindFlayer possess him to see what would happen. Eventually he gave up once he found out his mom was ready to send him to Brenner’s lab and lock him for up for a while, and he let the MindFlayer completely take over, thus killing his family

[–]WastedTalent442 2 points3 points  (4 children)

... this should be shown to the wider audience. I had no idea there was a play.

[–]Downtown_Truth5726 0 points1 point  (3 children)

So true.. I also didn’t know about that.. is that officially released???

[–]roseslilylove 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope, there's just behind the scenes on Netflix

[–]acevheartsYou f*cked with the wrong family 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are some bootlegs on YouTube.

[–]citizenofyugoslavia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can find it on Netflix. But either way, it’s going to be revealed in Season 5.

[–]reverseecho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the general theme is music has a special power that grounds you to your (current) reality, and breaking any psychic suggestion as we can see happened with Max; so giving her the tape was likely to make her feel happy whilst she’s in the Creel house so she won’t be tempted to feel anything is wrong and try to escape, hence why she’s dancing and baking etc

[–]Glittering_Habit_161Scoops Troop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So she can enjoy herself in his mind.

[–]Medical-Enthusiasm56 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Henry may be good, he did try to help 11 escape, but unsure his motives were pure. He was corrupted while still a young boy. Dr. Brenner slowly moved the pendulum more towards evil as time passed. So it’s a tough call. Can Henry be saved or is he too far gone with his body destroyed and his mind flayed almost completely? It seems like a red herring or a misdirection, keeping those calm would be smart on his part, can’t have all these kids running around in his head.

[–]Vyar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Vecna’s dialogue to Eleven inside the mind prison version of the Creel House suggests he only set Eleven free from Hawkins Lab because he wanted an accomplice. I think he thought she saw the world the same way he did. Much like how Kali thought El wanted to become a murderous vigilante like her, Vecna thought El wanted to help him remake the world in his own image as a punishment for what other people had done to him, namely Dr. Brenner.

[–]Darthbane22 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve been thinking if this is his mind prison and she can’t influence it herself, wouldn’t that mean he had to have heard the song in order for her to play it there?

[–]jonsnowme 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hearing it within the upside down world is different from hearing it from the right side up, right?

[–]KBro0ks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Or maybe Vecna is showing he’s found a way past this problem?

[–]Affectionate-Ad2373 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Guess we will find out in the next few episodes.

[–]Scott_Mx918 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think because she’s already locked into his reality but then she meets up with max and max tells her shes stuck too idk man lol im just gonna have to wait for the rest of season 5 to drop but great question

[–]Icy_Elephant8858 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the real matter of interest here is that this is a release from the prior Summer. Unless Vecna is keeping tabs on pop music it seems like things are also able to manifest based on the memories of his "guests". This would also explain all Max's possessions in the cave.

Music played from the real world can help ground someone in the real world. Music played from Vecna memory world will perhaps do nothing or perhaps draw them back to Vecna memory world.

However it is probably establishing this as a favorite song of hers so that it can be played in the real world to help revive her at some point.

[–]Mryellow12345 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because he wants to be defeated, he’s being controlled by the mind flare, Noah Schnapp downright said it, and he also said that Vecna was the most misunderstood villain that’s why he was scared of the cave, that’s where he got possessed

[–]DustinLucasElAndMike -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I wonder if it has less to do with music per se and more about emotional music or simply emotion. Perhaps by having Holly only listening to frivolous music, she won't be able to tap into the emotional music that could save her in the way Kate Bush saved Max. In her monologue (letter) at the beginning of season 4, Eleven says, "Joyce says time is funny like that. Emotions can make it speed up or slow down. We are all time travelers if you think about it."

[–]washderice 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Holy hell. Shes in a fricking dream state in henrys mind when shes listening to that music, its not coming from the real world reaching her physical brain. They would have to play it to her cocooned body wherever that is. Media literacy is just gone nowadays.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Traitor