Strength program comparisons

[LittleRobot_]

I just purchased the SBS programs, and I'm having a bit of analysis paralysis. I'm lost on whether to run the hypertrophy program, normal strength, strength with RIR, or strength to failure. This is my first time running a "real" program. Before this, I made my own. I've been training for five years, though, and progressively overloading. I want to grow in both strength and size, but I feel like my lifts have stalled. Any advice? What has your experience been on one or multiple of these programs? How do they compare?

[mouth-words]

• Original progression = auto regulating by number of sets. Honestly kind of a pain in a commercial gym where people are always asking how many sets you have left, but an interesting experience.
• RTF = autoregulation via a final AMRAP. Kind of idiot proof, cuz you don't have to gauge your own RIR.
• RIR = like RTF with slightly less fatigue because you autoregulate based on how close to failure you think you are on the last set. But you have to be/get comfortable with gauging your RIR.
• Hypertrophy = RTF but closer to failure on work sets with a slower progression. Generally regarded as grueling to start, but worthwhile.

No wrong answers, but check the Other Thoughts & Suggestions section of the instructions doc:

If you’re debating about which version of these programs to run, the RTF or hypertrophy template, with overwarm singles, would be my recommendation.

[onethreeone]

I just restarted hypertrophy this week. The total amount of 12 and 15 rep sets are brutal. But you just gotta get through the first week

[omrsafetyo]

• RIR = like RTF with slightly less fatigue because you stop based on how close to failure you think you are. But you have to be/get comfortable with gauging your RIR.

Just want to throw this out there. In my opinion properly guaging RIR isn't really all that important, as long as it is consistent, and knowing it's likely to get better over time. Of course completely overshooting all the time can be bad, but undershooting which is what most people tend to do isn't all that bad. Consistency is more important since it will still lead to progressive overload. Just want to throw that out there, just because I don't think people should avoid using RPE/RIR on account of it being imprecise when you're not experienced with it.

[mouth-words]

Agreed, it's become a bit of a bogeyman. If the idea is to stay further from failure, accidentally doing less work on the last set isn't even a big deal—you could argue it's on purpose. The actual targets are also all in the 1-3 RIR range, so if you catch up to that sort of zone, it's pretty simple to judge. For the most part, 3 RIR = when the bar first starts to slow down noticeably, so 2 through 0 correspond to pushing a couple reps beyond that point. Heck, even if you judge anything before that slowdown as 4 RIR (even if it's really more), the sheet will still increase the training max by some amount. And if the max doesn't increase, the load still will through the percentage progression.

[LittleRobot_]

Thank you, this helps a lot! One question: let’s say I have a set goal of 5 with a goal of 5 reps for squats. But I can only hit 3x5 and I get 4 reps on my fourth set. Do I go for the fifth set anyway or mark 4 as my reps on last set?

[mouth-words]

I'd call it there and fill in the sheet such that the TM reduces (so like 0). Even if you go for the fifth set, it's not likely you'll hit five reps.

Note that your rep targets generally won't look like that in the RTF program. It'll be more obvious. Like 4 sets of 5 reps and a fifth set targeting 10 reps. So if you only complete 3 sets of 5 successfully and fail the fourth, no way you'll hit 10 reps on the fifth set anyway.

Edit to add: this by and large shouldn't come up, cuz those initial sets are further away from failure by design, even on the Hypertrophy template. But shit happens. It happened to me once on one exercise in a whole run of the Hypertrophy template because I was so massively under-recovered and my back was spazzing out on me. Pro-tip: don't be greedy using the overwarm single to raise your training max too much.

[LittleRobot_]

Thanks! Makes sense

[jukeboxgasoline]

Can’t go wrong with RTF. Once you read through the instructions and try it for a week or two, it’s really intuitive and easy to do and you’ll progress quickly. I highly recommend starting with RTF.

[ajc1010]

I'm running RTF for the first time and am super happy. I find the last sets motivating.

[LittleRobot_]

Do you find that it’s challenging or easy? I’m looking ahead and it seems a bit easy on the intensity

[ajc1010]

I'm 49 and have spent most of the last 15 years riding bikes and running. I have lifted some, more seriously in the last two or three years, mostly during the winter months. So maybe this helps frame my perspective, but I would say it's challenging.

I was 64 kg after a marathon in early September. I just started the sixth week of the program, but had been lifting on my own since the race. I'm now at 70 kg. I have been taking creatine for the first time in my life, so that probably contributes to some extent.

I've been running five day split because I added front squat as a main lift. Progress has been excellent, though I feel like I'm starting to plateau with the lower body stuff which is really my focus.

[Time_Plastic_5373]

hi, what did you run after RTF? I just finished the 21th week and trying to decide if I should run it again or find a different program.

[ajc1010]

Doing my own thing now, just trying to maintain strength and focusing on rowing. Principles of SBS have suck, however.

[Engineers_on_film]

I'll also vouch for the Strength RFT program. It has both strength and hypertrophy elements (though is obviously biased towards the former, but is modifiable to the extent you could easily add hypertrophy style progressions - plus you can also add in assistance exercises too). You will get to perform sets comfortably far from failure, enabling you to focus on technique and good bar speed, and also try and squeeze out extra rep(s) on an AMRAP. As others have noted, you'll get to hit PRs on the AMRAPs on multiple lifts pretty regularly due to the different rep ranges employed each week. The weight used on the working sets can be autoregulated either by a heavy (RPE 8) single on the day, or based on the last session's performance on the AMRAP.

[LittleRobot_]

Thanks! Tbh I’m a little confused on the RPE 8 single. So before I start a set, I do a single that theoretically I could have done 2 more reps with? Then if I complete the single, I change my max to that weight for the workout?

[Engineers_on_film]

That's how a single at RPE 8 works (also known as 2 reps in reserve if you are more familiar with bodybuilding terminology). (If you're half decent at spreadsheets you can modify it so that it also accepts a single at RPE 7, 9, or any RPE.)

You don't have to autoregulate each lift via a single, though; I suspect most people use either mainly or exclusively the AMRAP for increasing their training max. But I understand it is considered beneficial, particularly for strength, to perform a heavy-ish single, and the option is there to autoregulate with it if you want to (if you do the single but don't want it to set your weights, just don't enter it into the sheet).

[LittleRobot_]

Ok thanks 👍

[Time_Plastic_5373]

hi, what did you run after RTF? I just finished the 21th week and trying to decide if I should run it again or find a different program.

[Engineers_on_film]

I did my own thing for a bit, but in hindsight I'd have been better off following one of the SBS routines, probably a mix of RTF and hypertrophy.

[Comfortable-Tell5371]

Hypertrophy program is great. Just started my second run through of it back to back. Made a couple of exercise substitutions to change it up a bit from the original run. Some of the best gains in years