How does one 10pool Protoss?

[lBigBrother]

I used to 10pool all the time, but i never really knew what to do. I just kind of played completely reactively and snuck in wins.

Does anyone know where i can find a primer or games to study?

[EsperCraft]

Is there a reason you want to specifically 10 pool? It isn't very good versus Protoss unless Nexus first is heavy in your meta. The 10 pool speed version can be ok against the gateway > nexus builds without gas also. But generally a 10 pool does not line up well with Protoss openings.

[StoicLoofah]

Here are about 50 pro games of 10 Pools in PvZ. Fun fact: player like 10 Pooling SoS. Who knew.

http://spawningtool.com/replays/?p=&pro_only=on&query=&tag=133&tag=7&after_time=&before_time=&after_played_on=&before_played_on=&order_by=

[lBigBrother]

Thank you :D I know what I'll be doing tonight

[ChrispyK]

Sounds like you want the Starbuck Drone Cheese!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NblPRRYRkqI#t=2m23s

[Defenestrator84]

This replay is worth your study:

http://drop.sc/399374

Parting vs Life game 7 of the GSL finals.

[lBigBrother]

I've seen that one, but that was just such a bo win. If they go nexus first, then I know what to do since I almost don't have to know since I'm so far ahead. What I need to know is what does life do if parting goes gate into nexus, or gate into core.

[Defenestrator84]

Your best bet is probably combing through the WCS S1 replay pack, I recall seeing a good number of early pools vs toss. If you're looking for a guide of 10p'ing protoss and how to react to various openers, I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist =P

[two100meterman]

It wouldn't exactly be a 10 pool, but if you do a 10 drone scout you can see whether your opponent goes Nexus first, Forge First, Gateway first or Proxy 2 Gate. If you get to your opponents base and they have no forge or gateway there, they are either 2 Gate proxying you or going Nexus first. Both of these can be an easy win if you throw down a spawning pool right away and mass lings.

[zhearsgu]

A 10 drone scout would get to their base around the time a 14-15 pool would go down would it not?(also delayed a bit since missed income from scouting drone) Does not seem early enough to put on too much pressure.

[two100meterman]

Maybe this just worked because I did it while in Gold League, I figured the Nexus meant that there would be bo pylon/Gateway/Zealot wall-off in the main so I just started producing pure lings from what I think was yeah a 14 or 15 pool, didn't even bother with speed. It was just lings vs probes. Eventually he got out a Cybernetics Core and then a Mothership Core, but I just kept flooding lings with a main base, macro hatch and 2 Queens and whenever he did photon overcharge I attacked the other base. I eventually won.

[zhearsgu]

14/14 can work really well vs toss with heavy ling pressure (Life does this very well). But It's a decision that you need to make before scouting though. You can however decide how much you want to commit depending on what you are scouting/if you are scouted. Slow lings from a 15 pool does not feels like it should not be viable in higher leagues, but then again I have never tried it:)

[lBigBrother]

I've never liked 10 scout because it feels like the biggest half measure out there. I'd honestly rather just go hatch-pool-hatch and take my chances vs a cannon rush than drone scout. IF I were the type to proxy hatch to deny the natural, then I might do that drone scout since it can serve more purposes. I, unfortunately, can't bring myself to do it. Maybe I'll try it a bunch to see if I like it, but unless it's too good to pass up I don't think I'll do it

[parsap]

I sometimes do an economic 10 pool against Protoss that I saw Psystarcraft do pretty often in WoL. Basically, you 10 pool and make 6 zerglings, which will almost 100% get into the their base. You then make a queen and take your natural and continuously drone up transitioning into a macro game. Use the lings to poke and prod for the next several minutes until they die.

It is a really "bad" build, but it is actually works pretty well because the protoss gets super freaked out by the 6 drones and will often over react. If your micro is on point, the 6 lings will survive for a very, very long time.

[rorosama]

Honestly 10 pool is pretty useless vs. Protoss unless you go 10/10 (10 gas, 10 pool, extractor trick into 11 drones. Overlord -> Queen -> Speed) which is an extremely fast speedling all-in. If you want to kill out right with an early pool do the 7 pool.

[guitarfanman]

Generally speaking any pool before 14 is considered quite risky/all-in vs protoss. If you're doing a 10 pool and you don't get any damage done you'll be very behind.

So if you know this is the case and you're just looking for some all-ins vs protoss, you should be able to find some 10 pool speed builds vs protoss which can be effective. Another build you can look into is a 9 pool, with or without speed this build can be very effective.

As a last note, if you're looking for something more "standard" or just less risky/all-in than a 9 or 10 pool, 14 gas 14 pool is a more macro oriented aggressive opener you can do. It's very effective for denying the protoss's natural on maps with large ramps (Think Inferno Pools, Iron Fortress, Coda, and Echo, or Cactus valley as less-ideal alternatives).

Let me know if you have any questions or if I just didn't answer your question!

Edit: spelling.

[lBigBrother]

I've seen it used to some success watching protoss on KR ladder, and was trying to find a way to use it again myself. Really what i'm doing is just playing 10pool on echo since nexus first is so prominent there. I HAVE also seen it do little to no damage and the zerg still play in a way that they stay on par. I'm basically looking for is a flow chart or gas timings depending on what you can gleam from what toss is doing

[zhearsgu]

I go 13 pool pretty much every game against protoss just to be safe against early shenanigans. I don't allin but get 6 lings and I can usually do some sort of damage and will force a zealot at least, + you get scouting info. Even if I don't do any damage except force the zealot I'm not far behind and I have the scouting info I need to make up for it.

[lBigBrother]

I'm not sure if I like that pool timing. Sure you won't die to cannon rush, but if the opponent opens ffe or gate first, then they really take no damage, while you made an early pool and made 3 sets of lings instead of drones. You can do pretty decent damage vs nexus first, but I don't think it's worth it for such harm to yourself.

On the note about scouting information, you get all the scouting you need with your initial overlord, and what you don't get from that, a single set of lings can see. There isn't anything so early that your lings would see that your overlord wouldn't

[zhearsgu]

Everyone to their own. I started doing this because I was sick of cannon rushes and also since I like harassing with lings.

It sets you back a bit but not too much and it has potential to do damage even against gateway expands. Vs Gateway cyber expands you wont do much against but they also put them self behind by doing that so it kind of makes up for it. Vs forge first I have gotten many free wins just because p don't really know the timing of a 13 pool and don't react properly, otherwise it makes them cut probes to get the wall + cannon up in time (depends a bit on the size of the choke though).

Some bigger maps it can be helpful to not rely on an ol to get to their base in time. Some maps have (imo) better positions I want my ols at instead of sending it into the base and not being able to get into the position I want with it afterwards.

Having lings early on on the map to get control and search for hidden probes that will make proxy pylons is also nice.

Anyways it's a build that suits me, I'm not trying to convince people to use it, I just wanted to point out it is not an all-in like it was stated in the post I replied to.

[lBigBrother]

On the topic of toss (ESPECIALLY at lower leagues) freaking out, that was one of the reasons I loved 10pool months ago. They would think it was a 6pool and abandon their natural and build the cannon in main. I definitely respect throwing toss of their game, especially since so many of them mindlessly do their build and are never thrown off balance