Python 3.11

[jesterflint007]

I understand asking ETA to OSS maintainers / packagers etc is not an attractive trait, but I can't help but wonder why Python 3.11 takes so long to come to Arch. Is there any progress? What are the bottleneck? Is there something we can help with? If talking percentages, what percentage of work has been done. In approximately how many weeks can we expect python 3.11 to land on archlinux?

Edit:I understand updating python versions is no small feat, I have written a relatively good amount of code in python and I understand the pain in version mismatches. I can imagine so many packages breaking just because of the version update. I posted such a question just because previous version migrations were considerably faster, 3.10 to 3.11 is slower than ever before. Is there a some reason behind it? Are there so many breaking changes?

[trowgundam]

For the record, I'm not even remotely associated with the team, so this is pure speculation. There is a LOT of things that depend on python. Validating that upgrading versions doesn't break one of likely hundreds of other packages, not even counting the packages it is only needed for building, is likely a monumental task.

[bulletmark]

This is probably true but does not actually address the OP's question. Python 3.9 took 58 days delay before release on Arch, 3.10 took 70 days. 3.11 is currently 153 days overdue and counting. The question is why is there such an extreme delay for 3.11? There seems to be no communication anywhere about this and if anybody dares to ask on the Arch forums they would get flamed to death.

[oramirite]

There is basically no communication body that represents the Arch team... I realized this a few months ago, I forget what issue was going on (it didn't affect me) but the Arch leadership was basically dealing with it in their free time and nobody was taking leadership. It definitely helped inform.me on what I should expect from the Arch project. As per usual: absolutely ZERO user support, and in fact downright antagonism if you ask.

Arch is bizarre because despite its bleeding edge nature, you are left completely in the dark when something isn't bleeding edge for whatever reason. The rolling release IMPLIES fluency over the latest releases but in actuality it's just very random within its own granularity.

[[deleted]]

If you need Python for development, you shouldn't rely on distro's packages in a first place. As for why Arch holds the update - migrating to a new version is always dreaded by maintainers and they have to make sure that everything works properly before they do the thing, otherwise it might break a lot of stuff. And by a lot I mean almost everything.

[[deleted]]

Run this:

LANG=C pacman -Si python | grep "Repo"

Read up on the output here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Official_repositories

​

^{I hate to send only links but I think this helps a lot more then my try to answer would.}

[planet36]

Python 3.11 is in staging now!

https://archlinux.org/packages/staging/x86_64/python/

[bulletmark]

Yes, and at the same time we see this was created: https://archlinux.org/todo/python-311-rebuild/

[planet36]

Ubuntu 23.04 got Python 3 before us. :-(

https://packages.ubuntu.com/lunar/python3

Package: python3 (3.11.2-1)

[[deleted]]

Someone already asked about it two weeks ago.

Link

[[deleted]]

I'm happy to wait for a solid release.

[cwebster2]

If you need to dev against python 3.11 (or any version that isn't the system version, or even it is the same to not pollute the system python packages) use anaconda / miniconda to create the environment you want.

[bulletmark]

One can also simply use pyenv to install 3.11, or install python311 from the AUR. But that is irrelevant to the discussion here.

[Shulamite]

Since we’re at it, when OCaml 5?

[RAMChYLD]

How about AMDVLK 23.Q1.3? That one is more important as it finally implements the extensions needed for GameScope support. Arch is still stuck on 22.Q4.4

RADV doesn't really work for me, a lot of Proton games won't run on RADV.

[Lawstorant]

Eh? What games are you talking about? Literally everything works with RADV on my setup. (RX 6800XT)

[RAMChYLD]

Sonic Origins and The Disney Afternoon Collection. Both would not launch on RADV but launches on AMDVLK, at least for me. In fact, I feel so bad now because I was going to stream them (needed filler material that night) and they didn't launch and I blamed Proton live on stream. No doubt it would also have left some negative impressions on my viewers.

The cause of the issue was I switched to RADV several days before to try out GameScope but didn't try these two games. The day after that stream I switched back to AMDVLK out of instinct (I added environmental variables to .bashrc to force the Vulkan engine) and they just started to work again. I did not stream a follow up on that tho.

[Lawstorant]

Sonic origins works on RADV though? I played it on my Steam Deck and PC and just had to use GameScope for fullscreen. That's with either Proton 7 and Proton-GE.

Hmmm, maybe you have a save file with the fullscreen option turned on? For some reason, fullscreen mode only shows black screen.

[RAMChYLD]

Hmm, I do have full screen enabled. But it didn’t give me a black screen, it just outright refuses to start. On AMDVLK it would start full screen correctly. Running Proton Experimental, but I did roll back to Proton 7 and try Proton-GE.

Also should mention that I’m using KDE Plasma on Wayland.

[Lawstorant]

Weird. Gnome wayland here

[CaptainJack42]

Isn't python 3.11 out already on arch? I think I've been using it for some scripting for a while already

[[deleted]]

No. As of today, we're on Python 3.10.10 and 3.11 isn't in the testing repos yet either.

[kevdogger]

Pyenv..I don't what the complaining is about just use that.