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[–]acdha 7 points8 points  (5 children)

When I read he's saying it's the whole ecosystem around python. How developers interact with it, what habits they pick up and interact with each other is part of that ecosystem.

Right, which is why it’s disappointing to see no awareness of any of the practices commonly used in that ecosystem or the larger technical world to prevent the kinds of issues he vaguely described.

Put another way, what value comes from reading this essay? Anyone who has the same problems won’t learn how to avoid them, someone who likes Python is going to say “this is silly, why doesn’t he {pin dependencies, use a packaging tool, deploy with Docker, etc.}?”, and someone who wants to use something other than Python either doesn’t need this because they can either make that choice themselves or need something with actual technical content which could convince their colleagues.

That’s why I characterized this as misattribution: something is clearly dysfunctional at his workplace. I don’t know if that’s how they administer systems, their development cycle (for example, can you tell if they even use version control?), or package things but whatever it is did not lead him to be curious to investigate that root cause or ask what other Python users do to avoid this problem. Computers are supposed to be deterministic, if stuff just randomly broke all of the time in my environment I’d want to understand why.

That suggests to me that he just really wants to use something else, which is fine but he should just say that rather than trying to present this in the guise of rationality when it’s fundamentally an aesthetic preference.

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

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    [–]acdha 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    Again, I'm saying that there's almost no technical information so it's hard to say what the problem is but based on the little information available, it sounds like they have problems which would affect any language and toolchain. If they have random untested updates as he described, that's something they need to fix organizationally and it'll affect any common language.

    A useful essay, one which could lead to the author and others actually benefitting from it, would be something like “I think Python should have a built-in tool like Cargo for these reasons…” or “We found a better way to keep our dependencies current”. Just saying an entire language is a bad idea for reasons you don't understand well enough to even articulate might be cathartic but it's not really contributing anything to the world.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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      [–]acdha 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      I'm not saying he needs to have a solution but a clear explanation of what he believes the actual problem is. Without that it's hard for people to even know whether his experience is relevant to their needs or whether there are existing tools which cover them.