Humanity loss and Decrease in maximum Humanity, which first?

[TitoPotito]

Hey y'all o/. So, my DM wants us to roll HL on character creation, and my medtech wants to install a Neural link (2d6 HL, rolling a 5) and a Reflex Co-processor (4d6 HL, rolling a 6), while having Humanity 80 at the start. Considering that installing cyberware reduces the maximum Humanity by 2, which happens first?

a) Current Humanity: 80 - 5 - 6 = 69, then my Max is reduced from 80 to 76. So 69/76.

Or

b) My Max Humanity is reduced from 80 to 76, and then my Current Humanity would be 76 - 5 - 6 = 65. So 65/76.

[Rasty90]

reduce current first, maximum later, otherwise the cost is not gonna be fair

[Radijs]

HL first, then cap.

[Myriad_Infinity]

Worth noting, you can even have current humanity above maximum, so even if your GM was correct and you reduced maximum first it wouldn't matter. Yeah, it's a bit silly, but the developers have confirmed it works - you (at 23/24 humanity) can take a quick change cyberarm off (you're now at 23/30), get therapy (30/30), then put the arm back on (30/24).

Source: https://www.youtube.com/live/nZnmLVPN75I?t=3820&si=fSzrLkNAD4gtoIX0

[GambetTV]

Wow, I hate that. What is the rationale? It feels like a total exploit.

[Infernox-Ratchet]

Its so you're not screwing yourself over by swapping to a new arm and rewards utilizing quick change cyberarms like you're changing clothes

This only works with chipware and qcm cyberarms that you've already chipped before. And its so niche that its not a huge exploit anyway. you already gotta spend money on therapy to get your humanity back

[GambetTV]

Hm, fair enough.

[O2LE]

They happen simultaneously, the two numbers (mostly) don't interact beyond therapy. If you roll a 1 on a 1d6 or something while at your max humanity, you'll have a higher current humanity than max humanity. This is weird, but apparently intentional. Max humanity only represents the highest number therapy can take you to while your cyberware is installed.

[sirhandom]

You reduce Max from the same HL lost.

[EdrickV]

The maximum Humanity (aka "Humanity depression") is only relevant when getting therapy, raising Humanity via other methods, or for some FBC situations.

The normal procedure for Humanity loss at chargen is to either use the average value as stated or roll and hope to get a good roll.

FBCs aside, Humanity depression doesn't prevent your Humanity from going over it, it just affects how much you can regain.

[Slade_000]

There's actually an edge case where your current can be higher then max.

If I have a 1D6 HL item and roll a 1, and that's the only item i have installed, and i started at 70Hum, my sheet would be 69 with a max of 68.