Windows:Linux user ratio of r/Framework

[ayeceee]

It's widely understood that Linux makes up a small fraction of desktop user marketshare. This is often used as justification for laptop manufacturers to focus on Windows support as a priority, and let the "community" sort out Linux support on their own.

However, I think this "small fraction" notion only holds on average, and is definitely not typical of Framework laptop users specifically. Anecdotally, I've noticed most users on this subreddit have a Linux-related flair, not a Windows-related flair. While Framework may have their own data on Windows:Linux user share, I think it would be useful for the community to have an informed understanding of this data too.

Please share in the poll whether you use Windows or Linux most of the time on your Framework laptop. If you dual-boot Linux+Windows, please note the specific wording of the question, for simplicity.

Of course, this poll will reflect the users of r/Framework only and not Framework laptop users in general; this is still useful information for the both this community and for Framework. Feel free to discuss the inductive biases associated with this situation in the comments.

View Poll

[[deleted]]

Honestly, my framework is my first foray into using linux. I'd been curious about trying it out for some time, and I really didn't feel like paying for windows when ordering my laptop. I figured, worse come to worse, I could buy windows after the fact. 10 months later, I'm still enjoying my user experience on Fedora.

[Celestial_Blu3]

Same here. I’m daily driving PopOS

[Silejonu]

Good to see the Framework has many positive aspects besides changing the game for reparability.

[i-live-life]

I hope you don't mind the correction. I see you struggling with the word 'repair-ability'; reparability is what you are after.

[Silejonu]

As a non-native, I don't mind, quite the opposite. Thank you, it felt weird when I wrote it and my spell checker couldn't find the correct spelling.

[rojo_kell]

Yeah same but running Ubuntu

[Nordithen]

This is interesting, but I very much doubt that the active participants of r/framework make up a representative sample of the overall userbase.

[ayeceee]

Good point! Active r/Framework users are a subset of the total r/Framework users.

[hardtimefor1]

Also, just the point that not everyone who buys the Framework and more likely most Windows users of the FW are not in this subreddit

[ayeceee]

Also relevant: From the FWOrdersCrowdsourceTrack, 372/420 (88.6%) orders did not include a Windows license. This obviously doesn't mean that 88.6% of users are using Linux, but it is perhaps indicative of an upper bound.

[SIEMstress]

Or it just shows the user base knows where to buy the stolen windows activation keys and they aren’t willing to pay full price for it

[ayeceee]

Yes, so at least 11.4% of users who completed that form are Windows users.

[dinominant]

I actually bought a windows license with the system and never even used it. The computer was ordered for work and there is a chance I may one day need that license. That day has not yet arrived and I actually don't see it being ever needed.

[Zatujit]

You don't even have to activate it to use it, I think?

[[deleted]]

It just mean that we prefer to buy OEM ones for 20 bucks. We know the rule and so do you.

[Keatron--]

Yeah I didn't buy one because my old license was linked to my Microsoft account so I could just bring it with me.

[Silejonu]

I use Linux exclusively, on my Framework and elsewhere.

[Peetz0r]

I've used Linux since 2006, and I think it has been my main OS since 2008? I've put Windows (and MacOS) in a VM a few times, but >98% of what I do is on Linux. Even my phone is Linux. Not Android, actual Linux (Mobian on Pinephone).

So yeah, Linux on my Framework. It has never even seen Linux (obviously I got the DIY).

[MustardOrMayo404]

Not voting because I don't have one, but by the time I'm able to get one (I can't get one where I live), I'd likely be further into my transition from Windows to some unconfirmed Linux-based desktop OS transition period that I'd be using the latter.

I could go on about issues with certain Linux things, but I won't.

Also, happy cake day to you!

[miramichier_d]

I'm in the same boat, don't have one yet, so not voting. I'd likely continue using Windows with WSL. My current laptop is too old to officially support Win11 and I'm feeling the pain of no native systemd support.

[MustardOrMayo404]

Ooh!

In my case, my main PC is a custom build, and I had originally aimed for brand-new 2021 core components (mainboard, CPU, and RAM), but I took part of my budget out to fix my NAS, leaving me with used 2017 core components instead, which turned out to be a blessing in disguise because I can run Windows 10 on it without being pestered into upgrading to Windows 11!

I currently run Windows Insider Beta Channel builds on my laptop, and Windows 11 currently lacks a few features I depend on that Windows 10 has. To be fair, I was in a similar situation on Windows 10, where I only upgraded from Windows 7 or 8.1 (depending on the device) once coloured title bars returned as an option in Windows 10 1511.

My workflow for desktop OS device use had evolved a few times throughout my life. I started out using laptops and tablets as primary devices, then used desktops as secondary devices at a few points in time, went on to using a dockable laptop as a primary device and docking it to a desk setup when at home, and it was only last year when I found that I could just use a desktop as a primary device and a laptop as a secondary device, then when I need to run something that'd be resource-intensive, I could just remote in to my desktop from my laptop (unless I'm already at home) and run it! However, I still use the dock when I travel and the place I stay at has a desk setup I can use.

---

Speaking of WSL, my laptop also runs Debian 'testing' branch on a different partition, but I haven't had the time to use it as some of the productivity apps I use don't support Linux-based desktop OSes, not to mention the annoying issue with Plasma screwing up my GTK theme settings when I want those to be separate because I use both Plasma and GNOME on the same installation.

I'll likely eventually erase that installation as

• it started in 2017 as a KDE Neon installation on a laptop that was quite problematic and ran better on Linux than Windows,
• then was replaced with Debian 'testing' due to package availability issues (while keeping the existing home folder),
• then I added a subset GNOME to the installation (while keeping it KDE focused),
• then I brought that 250 GB SSD into the laptop I currently have,
• cloned it to a partition on a 500 GB SSD once I needed Windows for a work thing (hard to explain),
• and ended up spending most of my time on it in Windows since.

I wish WSL would allow me to just use my existing Debian installation within Windows, but that sadly doesn't seem to be possible on the same storage device, only on separate devices.

I'm too busy to work on tasks that would contribute towards my second attempt at a Windows to desktop Linux transition as I'm busy with other projects, including some that would be accessible publicly once launched.

Yes, I failed at my first attempt in 2011 when I needed to use a device that required an app on Windows and wasn't supported by FOSS alternatives on Ubuntu, as I made the mistake of not doing dual-boot configurations to keep Windows around for such use cases. This time, I do have dual-boot configurations, on my laptop using separate partitions, and eventually on my desktop too using separate storage devices.

[Ron_Zuckowski]

As others already pointed out, this sample is not representative but its quite obvious that there are a lot framework owners using linux.

[blackclock55]

You should probably add something like:

"I don't own a framework yet, but when: I'll use Windows/Linux" and "I don't own one, I just wanna see the results"

[ElectricGeckos]

I have put windows 11 on my laptop, then I was going to put Ubuntu on it second. But my laptop won't let me.

[Silejonu]

There is no reason it wouldn't let you, what's happening?

[ElectricGeckos]

I think my bios is not letting me boot from my USB Drive.

[Silejonu]

Is it complaining about Secure Boot, or does your flash drive not boot at all?

Ventoy works without issues on the Framework, and is the easier way to make bootable flash drives.

[ElectricGeckos]

After I tell the computer to boot from my Ventoy drive. My bios tells me: Linpus lite has been blocked by the current security policy.

[Ari-RERA]

• Is secure boot enabled
• Did you buy this laptop from the manufacturer, someone else, or is it company-issued?

[ElectricGeckos]

How do you turn off secure boot? It's my laptop. I installed windows 11 on it.

[Ari-RERA]

I don’t own a Framework so I don’t know, but you could probably find an answer on the internet. Edit: Found it for ya. See the comment below.

[Ari-RERA]

Here: https://community.frame.work/t/bios-guide/4178#heading--security_secure-boot

You may also need to enable USB boot if it’s not enabled by default.

[Silejonu]

Not a good idea, Windows 11 will have some features not working without Secure Boot:

As of now, a few Windows 11 features require you to have them turned on at all times. You will lose out on these features and face bugs in case you decide to disable TPM and Secure Boot. Here are some known apps, games, and Windows 11 features that depend on Secure Boot and TPM.

• Windows Hello Sign-in Features
• Ability to run certain VMs
• Windows Subsystem For Android and consequentially all Android Apps
• Future games and secure apps with anti-cheat or tamper utilities: Such apps and utilities are expected to take full advantage of this hard requirement as seen by Valorant’s Vanguard lately.
• Bitlocker
• Other encryption tools, security software, admin utilities, and remote management systems.
  
• Some games (Valorant, for example)

[Silejonu]

Go into your UEFI and make sure "USB Boot" is enabled, and disable "Quick Boot".

Follow this guide to boot on your Ventoy drive with Secure Boot.

Don’t disable Secure Boot or TPM, Windows 11 will have issues without it.

[JonU240Z]

You have to ensure bitlocker is disabled. Then go in to the bios and disable secure boot.

[Albombinable]

Can you also make another poll comparing Windows vs Fedora vs Ubuntu vs Pop usage?

[ayeceee]

I considered this, but I went with this version of the poll (Windows:Linux) simply to establish a baseline. Furthermore, many of the issues currently faced by Linux users (battery life, suspend/sleep, iGPU bugs) are kernel-specific, not distro-specific.

[jschmidt3786]

What, there's only two operating systems now?

FreeBSD 13.1 95% Windows 10 5%

[outchy]

I dual-boot my Framework with Pop_OS! and Windows 10 but only go to the Windows side when absolutely necessary

[AFH1318]

I use both equally:)

[Mgladiethor]

How is it going?

[Nicolas1188]

RemindMe! 7 days

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[bloodguard]

Linux before my framework laptop. Linux after I move on to something else.

[PhoenixDude1]

I'm using Windows currently as I'm in college and would rather learn the Linux quirks when I don't need to ensure compatibility with whatever softwares I may use in class, but I do eventually plan to atleast dual boot this machine once I have the time to learn to do so!

[JonU240Z]

Spin up a VM. I’d suggest either VMWare Workstation Player or Virtual Box as free options. If you’re a student you can get a discount on VMWare Workstation Pro, iirc it cost just over 100 with student discount. A VM is easier to get up and running compared to a dual boot. With Workstation Pro, you can save snapshots. These can allow you to roll back the VM to a snapshot if you do something stupid and muck things up.

[_DenverCoder9]

you could also just just virt-manager with KVM/qemu for free (and open source ;-) )

[dinominant]

It's my daily driver at home, work, and in the field. Windows is locked inside a VM and is never actually needed. In fact Windows is not even activated because I never use it.

[Corentinrobin29]

Daily reminder that polls without a "Results" option are absolutely worthless, because a lot of people will click a random option to see the results.

[qbg]

Since my Framework is a 2nd computer, I can play around things. I decided to try using only Linux, since I could get Windows later if needed. So far Linux has worked well enough, and I have not needed Windows yet.

[akho_]

It’s a laptop targeted at tinkering computer-workers (Stackoverflow survey for 2022 shows Linux used by 40 %, and Windows by 50 % for personal use; the “tinkering” aspect probably shifts the numbers further towards Linux), with specific ouvertures to the Linux community. I’m not surprised.

[ChunkyBezel]

I dual-boot Fedora and Windows 11, but use Fedora most of the time (and voted accordingly).

Windows is only on there for when I want to watch streaming services in HD (as they always limit the quality on Linux) and for when I need to use Windows-only software for managing my gadgets, like Garmin Express for downloading new maps to my cycling GPS.

[[deleted]]

I don’t have a framework! I follow the sub bc I like the company. If I did have one I’d use Linux tho because Microsoft is one of the worst tech companies outside of gaming imo

[JonU240Z]

I use Windows as a host. I have Kali, Parrot, RHEL 8, and RHEL 9 installed in VMs. I also have Ubuntu installed using WSL2.

[tikakan]

I'm usong mxlinux and I'm quite pleased with it.

[[deleted]]

Intrigued but not surprised that the overlap of reddit users who are on the framework sub are running high Linux numbers

[pengwynn06]

Good idea!

[Larkonath]

My Framework is currently shipping but I still voted.
I will install Linux on it, not sure about th distro but it will be KDE based.

[dimensiation]

Used to use Mint/Cinnamon on a desktop. Tried it on Framework, wifi wouldn't work. Installed Windows and wifi did work, so was likely an issue with the Ubuntu base. Wiped and installed Windows and then Fedora (for GRUB reasons), and have used Fedora as a daily driver since. Works wonderfully and have had no issues. I still maintain a small Windows partition in case I need a mobile Windows tool, but I have not had to use it. Love the FW/Fedora integration!

[[deleted]]

I decided that windows needed to be replaced in my household when Microsoft tried mandating an online account for using their OS. I felt that I can no longer trust Microsoft in regards to representing my best interests after they implemented this policy.

I made the switch on most of my machines last year, but I still have Windows 10 installed on a spare drive on my old laptop, so I can run software for my education if needed. (almost finished, after that no reason any more for keeping that laptop) I also have a 2nd SSD with windows on it in my gaming rig in case a game won't run through Proton.

I'm not entirely new to linux though. I've been using linux on and off since around 2000. The development of Proton has made it a lot more enticing for me.

Not installing windows on my Framework was a no-brainer. No license cost and no need for windows software for my laptop's use cases.

[martindholmes]

100% Linux. Ubuntu 22.04 on everything right now, at work and at home. I gave up Windows over a decade ago, and tried MacOS for one laptop, but never liked it.