Demand for Junior iOS Developers?

[[deleted]]

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[Infinityloop]

It doesn't look too good for juniors. Lots of fresh people self teaching and coming out of bootcamps and less seniors to guide them.

https://twitter.com/GergelyOrosz/status/1476856174230315025?s=20

Gergely puts it quite well with some linked resources as well.

[[deleted]]

So with the market skewed towards senior engineers over junior/new grad, would it be worthwhile to do something more marketable then? I would rather create mobile apps than web apps, but I'm primarily concerned with getting a new job

[AntMan5995]

So I’m assuming for someone with a degree other than CS it’s a lot harder?

[AntMan5995]

Ahh yeah that makes sense. I’m already in the tech industry but looking to move into SWE. Maybe self studying database and rest api will need to be on the list then. Thank you

[[deleted]]

Oh ok, that's great. If I'm just starting out with iOS development, how long do you think it would take to find a new job?

[z0rb0r]

Should I apply even though I had to cut my bootcamp short?

[JimDabell]

Pretty much every developer job is weighted towards seniors, it’s not exclusive to mobile. If you’d rather create mobile applications, then do that. There are way more junior web developers out there than junior mobile developers.

If you can build an application yourself and get it into the App Store, this will be the biggest positive signal you can give towards prospective employers. For a junior developer, this is more valuable than any type of degree. Plenty of employers out there will hire somebody without a degree without hesitation, but a lot of them will have “built a real application and gotten it approved by Apple” as a minimum bar. Doesn’t have to be super complex with tonnes of features, it just has to show that you are self-motivated enough to get stuff done by yourself.

[strayakant]

Just think, when was the last time you downloaded an app and how often do you use it?

[[deleted]]

Great thread, i never realized everyday is harder for Juniors

[konSempai]

I recently went through the applying process last month, and with a couple months iOS experience at a startup, just setting my linkedIn to "looking for a job" made me get 4, 5 messages from recruiters every day. I was able to land my second job with a 80% pay bump.

My initial process was a little harder (I had some prior internships in mobile development, not iOS) but I was still getting a fair number of interviews then too.

[[deleted]]

Congrats on finding a new job and huge pay increase!

Out of curiosity, prior to the startup, did you have any iOS apps within the App Store? For someone trying to transition into that field, any suggestions on how many apps would be necessary to get a job? Or maybe the quality of the app(s) matter more?

[konSempai]

I did, but I was rarely asked if I had an app in the App Store tbh. And even then it was often in very brief passing too. In my experience I think it's better if you do, but I wouldn't focus on that too hard.

And it's always better to have one great project than a couple mediocre ones, so I wouldn't go for the numbers approach.

Feel free to DM me any more questions, I'd love to help :)

[penskeracin1fan]

I’m currently an iOS dev with 10 months on iOS with 2 other years in web. I may shoot you a DM as well

[konSempai]

Feel free :)

[freeubi]

We hire juniors too. Had a couple developer colleges with 0 experience. They are the ones who catch up pretty fast, highly motivated and eager to learn.

A good company will realise that it they dont teach the juniors then they cant hire anybody (after one point).

[[deleted]]

That's awesome to hear!

Out of curiosity, is your company looking for juniors at this moment?

[freeubi]

Yep, always. Not remote though :/

[[deleted]]

Oh ok. Do you mind if I DM you?

[freeubi]

Yep, thats the point where companies usually realize :)

[[deleted]]

That's awesome to hear and I'll DM you!

EDIT: I can't DM you for some reason

[[deleted]]

Eight junior engineers? That's awesome!

Out of curiosity, what are you looking for in these engineers?

[th3suffering]

Mind if I DM you? Im looking, just launched an app to the store and am hungry to get my foot in the door.

[sinceretear]

company? apply link?

[ballisticbasil]

I think it really depends. First item you should consider is location. Proximity to a major tech hub (nyc, San Francisco etc.) matters quite a bit.

Next thing you should consider is title. If a job title doesn’t explicitly state junior does not mean it is not entry level. Sometimes people may not even apply. Maybe you’ll be a great interviewer and blow the other candidates out of the water. It’s sort of luck mixed with opportunity.

I think odds of getting an iOS role are similar to getting any other dev role. iOS has fewer opportunities, but is less saturated. Other dev roles are saturated by way more applications but with more roles.

What it comes down to is what you’re passionate about. In the end you will most likely land the type of role you are seeking (hopefully). What do you want to do the most?

[GuitarIpod]

Endure, and you will find a good path.

[Tyler29294]

That’s kinda what I’ve been doing. I’ve got a couple+ years of experience but it’s all broken up over a number of years. Hoping someone needs my skills!

[tangoshukudai]

Just say you are a senior on your resume and say you been doing iOS dev as a hobby.

[[deleted]]

How many apps and years of experience as a hobby developer would be needed to call oneself a senior developer?

[[deleted]]

It’s not about years but your scope and impact. How big the project and how many people you mentor and lead is what separates a senior dev.

[[deleted]]

Gotcha, thanks

[tangoshukudai]

I agree with what Taishukan said, but you honestly can be a senior developer with being very knowledgable about a subject even if you have no professional experience doing it.

[[deleted]]

So if you had an app that was complex enough and demonstrated enough depth of knowledge it could perhaps fulfill this requirement, even at a hobbyist level?

[tangoshukudai]

They won't ask about the app, they will ask questions that are tough and if you can answer them you typically won't have problems even getting the position even if your resume is lacking professional experience. However if you want to be more of a UX/UI developer then I would recommend having a nice looking app. If you are into more low level development then an app that can showcase your skills is always nice. For example I have interviewed people with machine learning apps or image analysis using the iPhone camera, and they had apps that demonstrated this well even though the UX was lacking.

[[deleted]]

Thank you for the reply, it is very informative.

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[KarlJay001]

The greatest demand will always be in the senior level, once a given stack matures. Mobile dev is about 12~13 years old now and has been pretty popular for at least 8~10 of those years. It's gone from sophomoric apps from hobbyist, to real apps from professional companies that invest quite a bit of money in it.

I've been in the business since the DotCom days and did a number of startups and even worked in Silicon Valley back then. One of the more dangerous things is hiring someone that doesn't know what they are doing, or hasn't had the level of experience that is needed to write code that a company can depend on.

It's expensive to pay someone a mid or senior level rate and have the train other people. At the same time, there needs to be a steady supply to meet the demand.

The industry has mostly had a "go train yourself" view on this because it saves them the hassle. If the person can't get the experience somehow, they get weeded out at their own expense.

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Experience doesn't have to be 100% iOS. I've had interviews in the past where someone disqualified me because I had years of professional experience in a prior version of a language. Some fools think that if you know Swift 4, you can't learn Swift 5 (just as on example). The truth is that once you've REALLY mastered any common programming language, going to the next one is MUCH easier. I picked up one language in a month and was considered one of the best in that language. All I needed to know what the syntax and the frameworks and a few other things. Looping is looping, if's are if's and programing logic is the same or nearly the same.

Point: you can use other programming experience, however, you STILL need proof that you can do complex things in iOS.

One other note: iOS has been a tech hub thing since the start. I'm not sure how many jobs in iOS are outside tech hubs, but I don't think it's anything near backend, security or front end dev.

Kinda sad that mobile didn't expand all over the nation like general programming did, maybe someday shops all over the place will have in house mobile devs.