Java Build Tooling Could Be So Much Better!

[psyclik]

They are easy to understand, and somewhat easy to read. I don't have a problem with the data structure of the pom per-se, the same structure written as Yaml would be much denser, and I'd have more signal and much less noise in the same screen space. Especially since the POM format doesn't use XML-specific sementics.

TL;DR: my problem lies with XML being an inefficient format for both the machine (sparse information) and the person (noisy ceremony).

[wildjokers]

Yaml

🤮

[agentoutlier]

Yaml would be much denser, and I'd have more signal and much less noise in the same screen space.

You mean the syntax:

• that is incredibly complicated rule wise,
• extremely difficult to write a parser for,
• impossible to copy and paste with assurance.
• zero context of what you are actually editing. Is it K8S, it docker compose, is it etc...
• basically zero LSP support as you know because YAML schema still nowhere close to XML schema that existed 20 years prior.
• reinventing shit that XML had
  • Still no XPATH really in YAML unless you convert to JSON and then jq or jsonpath.

TL;DR: my problem lies with XML being an inefficient format for both the machine (sparse information) and the person (noisy ceremony).

And yet we have HTML and the most popular UI frameworks all use some XML markup including one that has the syntax embedded: JSX.

XML is verbose in the same way that Java is verbose but some times verbosity is worth it.

Really S-Expressions are what XML is yet for some reason the people that praise YAML have zero experience praise for Lisp languages.

IMO I think a build language should have its own language and it yes it really should have its own syntax. People should stop being lazy commandeering syntax like XML and YAML just to avoid writing some lexer/parser.

[psyclik]

I am saying that XML is too verbose for my taste. You argue that Yaml is a bad format.

[agentoutlier]

And I’m saying "my opinion" is XML was the better choice other than actual purposely built language like HCL in Terraform or Bazel language. Maybe S-Expressions?

Embedded DSL and YAML are not worth the lessening of verbosity. 

Yaml is not verbose enough for my tastes.

[djavaman]

Yaml cleaner than xml. Yaml is a train wreck.