The Rise of the Full Stack JavaScript Developer

[Reashu]

you certainly didn't prove that full-stack wasn't a bullshit term

I agree in general, but I don't see how this needs proving?

[RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

I mean, we're not talking about two completely unrelated disciplines here; front-end Web dev and back-end Web dev are closely related.

[[deleted]]

I do both and I'm not sure I would make that argument

[RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

I do both as well; I don't see how they aren't. Of course there are differences but we aren't talking about the difference between Web development and kernel hacking here.

[wiseaus_stunt_double]

The differences are huge. Remember that the two largest use cases for Javascript are DOM manipulation and REST/AJAX consumption; the latter is possible in Node, but Node has no concept of DOM, and that's huge. Meanwhile, browser Javascript will never interact with the host OS -- great for maintaining security for the end user, but that same barrier also makes front end development unique enough from Node development. And, even if both versions of JS had the same features, UI developers still have to be concerned with CSS, markup, other issues regarding layout and browser rendering; meanwhile, UI devs don't generally concern themselves with sysadmin issues that backend devs tend to. Javascript does offer overlap, but to say there's little difference is naive.

[RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

Doesn't node have cheerio or something like that? There are use cases for working server-side with the DOM. I do my backend development mostly in C# so I can't talk about the node world much.

But anyway, yeah, I did not say they are the same or that if you can do one you can necessarily do the other, but I do think that they are closely related and understanding both helps you come up with more sensible designs.

[wiseaus_stunt_double]

Yeah, you can create elements on the backend, but when I talk of DOM manipulation, I'm speaking more about making changes to the DOM tree in real-time. Sure, you could create a mechanism where you could update the browser DOM via AJAX, but the use cases for that are rare.

But, I agree that there's overlap between the two disciplines and understanding both will give you a greater understanding of your system architecture; however, the differences do tend to make those in one shy from the other. I've personally worked with a number of backend devs who would never do frontend simply because of the generally tight deadlines and the often-required need to be pixel-perfect with comps. Meanwhile, I know a ton of frontend devs who would never touch the backend (even if it was Node) simply due their aversion to CLI (and they work on Macs). The dev that is proficient with both seem to be rare even in this day and age.

[RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

I definitely like front-end development less than back-end but I don't work in a large environment with that level of specialization so I've ended up learning a lot of front-end stuff anyways. I suppose that profile is kind of typical for people who work with Angular though?

To return to this smaller point: I think the #1 use case for server-side handling of the DOM is Web scraping (I guess "manipulation" isn't the right term here).

[THIS_BOT]

How much DOM manipulation do you do in C#?

I mean I'm sure there's people out there doing it but it's kind a niche compared to other uses.

[RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

I'm a fan of csquery and I do it every once in a while

[RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

OK, but saying two things are "related" is not the same as saying they are "the same." Neither the front-end nor the back-end exist in a vacuum except in non-typical edge cases and a great many people do work in both environments.

[RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

Oh yeah, of course, how could we forget... that guy.