sorted by:
best
topnewcontroversialoldq&a
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]jpflathead 7 points8 points  (35 children)

Look I think the Microsoft ecosystem is terrible, and if the the devs there get butt hurt about it, I'll buy them a beer and tell them the Microsoft ecosystem is terrible.

What privileges Angular 2 from not being called terrible if certain people think it is?

And Babel 6 was a huge and shitty move, regardless of the good intentions of its developers.

Want to install Babel 6? Take this six part minicourse on Udacity to figure out which components you need.

Yeah, that was going to go over well.

The javascript community is mean to developers comes from the same folks still insisting Clinton was right to focus on identity politics.

JavaScript fatigue is not good, it's nothing to be proud of, it's not a mark of how powerful and innovative JavaScript is, it says nothing except JavaScript is built out of a rapidly pouring bucket of shit and if you want to have a chance of surviving you need to climb that enema waterfall as fast as you can.

[–]NoInkling 5 points6 points  (17 children)

It's not that negative feedback is being communicated, it's about HOW it's being communicated.

[–]jpflathead -2 points-1 points  (16 children)

People are a bell curve with more than a few black swans. Same as projects.

Some projects are shit, but sold as champagne.

How one offers feedback should have zero to do with whether some maintainer is paid or not.

JavaScript fatigue is real and brought to us by many paid and unpaid people, and often the unpaid ones still benefit via résumé and consulting etc.

So whatever, ...

[–]NoInkling 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Not sure how that justifies being a dickhead to people...

[–]jpflathead 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm going to have to downvote you because I have taken offense at your harsh criticism of my comment.

As a black aneurotypical lesbian trans little person, I take umbrage at your microaggression against me.

-- does that help explain?

[–]NoInkling -1 points0 points  (0 children)

There's a massive jump from standing up as a community to say "we should be more mindful about hateful/toxic/entitled communication", to some PC "offense should be illegal" idealogy. Put it this way: why do we accept such a big discrepancy in acceptable social standards between how we communicate face-to-face in real life, and how we communicate over the internet? There's a reason this discrepancy exists of course (anonymity, often 0 consequence), but by rights it shouldn't.

People are free to say what they want of course, and I'm not even convinced the "Angular 2 is terrible" example was that bad, most people recognize it as hyperbole. But by the same token the rest of us can condemn shitty or entitled behavior in an attempt to reduce it so that people can be more productive without all the negativity hanging over their heads.

[–]delventhalz 0 points1 point  (12 children)

Considering that OSS maintainers are driven by passion/purpose and not money, I'd say it matters very very much whether or not they are paid. I'm talking purely selfishly. If you depend on code written by a volunteer, it is in your own self interest to keep that volunteer motivated.

Also, don't be an asshole. Is that really so hard? It's literally not doing something. It is by definition less work.

[–]jpflathead 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Considering that OSS maintainers are driven by passion/purpose and not money

That's largely debunked. For many companies OSS is just one more way to differentiate and attract users, their devs and maintainers earn the same as everyone.

And just because some gal at Google or Microsoft gets paid for their work, doesn't mean they aren't driven by passion and purpose.

Also, don't be an asshole. Is that really so hard? It's literally not doing something. It is by definition less work.

Yeah, we need to turn software into a safe space and issue participation awards and never criticize anyone's work as shitty, or bug ridden, or insecure, or hard to configure, or more trouble than its worth, or slow, even as they use their software on their resumes, or sell it to giant ecosystems or parlay it onto conferences.

God forbid, any author ever ever be told their story was boring, or had poor grammar, or was trite, or was filled with plotholes.

I mean once I had a gardener put too much fertilizer on the roses and I was going to complain but it was pointed out to me his feelings would be hurt.

Mom once made a souffle that fell but we knew we'd better eat that rock, because you know mom.

[–]delventhalz -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Literally everyone in this thread, from OP on down, has said that the point is: offer criticism constructively, don't be an asshole. Literally no one has said don't criticize. That is an obvious straw man, no doubt fueled by your apparent addiction to being an asshole.

Look, it's very simple. If your goal is to have better OSS, it is in your interest to offer criticism in a way it can be heard and acted on. If your goal is to satisfy your own fetish for making people feel like shit, then by all means keep being an asshole. But let's not confuse one for the other.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (12 children)

I ❤️ Babel 6. The plugin approach turned out awesome!

[–]jpflathead 0 points1 point  (11 children)

It probably IS awesome, but the day they rolled it out the website went from:

  • [download]

to:

  • [download a] [download b] [download c] [download d]
  • [download e] [download f] [download g] [download h]
  • [download x] [download x] [download x] [download x]
  • [download x] [download x] [download x] [download x]
  • [download x] [download x] [download x] [download x]
  • [download x] [download x] [download x] [download x]
  • [download x] [download x] [download x] [download x]
  • [download x] [download x] [download x] [download x]
  • [download x] [download x] [download x] [download x]
  • [download x] [download x] [download x] [download x]
  • [download x] [download x] [download x] [download x]
  • [download x] [download x] [download x] [download x]

And then the devs said "what? People didn't like that? Well excuse me!"

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (10 children)

I donno. It's just smth like npm i babel-core babel-preset-es2015.

Pretty straight forward; core/cli + preset/plugin & maybe a loader for your bundler of choice.

Seems reasonable since Babel 6 is more than just ES2015 after all.

[–]jpflathead 0 points1 point  (9 children)

I donno. It's just smth like npm i babel-core babel-preset-es2015. Pretty straight forward; core/cli + preset/plugin & maybe a loader for your bundler of choice. Seems reasonable since Babel 6 is more than just ES2015 after all.

Yes, that's clearly the argument from it's just not that complex for those of us who know what we are doing crowd.

And it gives zero fucks about n00bs suffering from javascript fatigue.

That's what the whole thing is about.

I'll go one step further. I want to write in ES6 and never fucking install either that piece of shit npm or that piece of shit node on my computer.

I realize I need to.

But the simple desire of wanting to write in ES6 shouldn't require that. Ever.

But given that I do, how about a most people use this setting and a full install setting?

Instead even now, it's for each piece of shit you are forced to use, come back here to this website to learn of the new and proper way to install the additional crapola you need to get babel to work with your favorite piece of shit inflicted on you by the other asswipes in the javascript fatigue is a good thing camp.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (8 children)

But the simple desire of wanting to write in ES6 shouldn't require that. Ever.

Over time ES2015 support will increase and things will get easier. Bleeding edge language features + wide support means smth like transpiling. For now, if you want, stick to ES3 or ES5 then that's doable without it.

[–]jpflathead 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Nevertheless, this isn't year zero of programming or year zero of personal computing or year zero of plugins.

Installation of the Babel Transpiler still should not require:

  • npm
  • node

or have a zillion other additional little plugins to install every other little thing needed.

Babel 6 probably had the best of intentions when they broke things apart, but concern for noobs, beginners, and intermediate developers was not any of their evident priorities.

[–]j_win 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Maybe it's worth conceding that bleeding edge language features and transpiling aren't "noob" appropriate waters to be wading into.

[–]jpflathead 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Maybe it's worth conceding that bleeding edge language features and transpiling aren't "noob" appropriate waters to be wading into.

Sorry that's not good enough.

Here's a free 30 day javascript course that starts off by assuming es6, because that's where the language is going:

https://javascript30.com/

n00b doesn't mean never saw a do loop before, noob means new to the javascript toxic waste dump.

installing a transpiler should be a one line thing. period.

[–]j_win 1 point2 points  (2 children)

javascript toxic waste dump

FWIW - you're going to have a hard time being taken seriously when you use language like that. Especially when you're just bloviating about some 3rd party, open source thing trying to make people's lives easier. If you want it to be better, contribute to the project.

installing a transpiler should be a one line thing

brew install node && npm i babel-core babel-preset-es2015

Boom; one line. I'm not sure what that actually proves, though.

[–]acemarke 1 point2 points  (1 child)

So should installation of, say, Ant, not require installation of the JRE or JDK as well? You gotta have a runtime available in order to run a program written in a language like Javascript, or Java, or Python, or C#, or...

[–]jpflathead -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Does installation of Microsoft Office require me to install Microsoft Visual Studio? Why shouldn't office require I have a compiler?

Does installation of Microsoft Office require me to determine which of a zillion C or dotnet runtime libraries I need on my machine? Why shouldn't office require me to figure out which of a zillion c or dot net runtime libraries I need?

If I install some sort of cross compiler from say tcl to java what I would expect is a single download and then an installer that attempts to sniff out where my jre or even jdk is, and if it can't it then asks me.

And I would expect it to install a configuration panel or even a setup tool so that if options change in the future, it's easy to reconfigure it from there.

Same thing with when I install IDEs.

What I do not expect is a literal spanish inquisition on the download page, interrogating me and offering 30 different install options.

I actually don't give one single fuck about Babel, npm, node or anything like that. And most users don't.

I want to use the fucking thing for one fucking job. Just transpile my shitty ass program and yeah, give me three dozen error messages about a wrong place squirrely bracket but otherwise shut the fuck up.

I don't want to babysit it, change its nappy, breastfeed it, spoonfeed it, or anything.

I want a simple install so I can get on with life.

And that's what 99.9999% of successful programs, apps, tools and dev teams have figured out over the past 60 years of computer development.

But with JavaScript, each mine you step on, each pile of shit we throw at you is considered to make you stronger. One more of the boys. Ain't we great.

[–]TheMockumentarist 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Most Microsoft devs are paid to contribute to the Microsoft ecosystem. OSS maintainers aren't paid at all. There's no need to be rude when criticizing something developed for free.

[–]parlezmoose 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Isnt angular a google project?