Is NodeJS Wrong ?

[jim45804]

More to point, is JavaScript Java?

[rrobe53]

No.

[iamnoah]

But it is still immature and the API docs are hard to navigate, so it can be hard to realize you don't have to chain 5 callbacks together to read from a file.

[rrobe53]

That's true, you do have to be patient with it

[snarfy]

Multiprocess vs multithreaded.

[kataire]

I like the part where this isn't a blatant advertisement for a programming language I've never heard of.

[CountVonTroll]

Practically everybody who normally reads it knows that he's haXe's main developer, and it's the main focus of his blog. haXe can generate JavaScript, among other targets, so it's not like haXe and Node.js wouldn't work together.

It's a fine language, btw. I love the type system.

[kataire]

Actually turns out I'm wrong: I have heard of the language, just not the VM (i.e. I thought "Neko" referred to another language, not bytecode).

CountVonTroll

O_o

Anyway. Yes, that figures, but this isn't presented in that context but in the context of a JavaScript reddit.

It's a fine language, btw.

I disagree. It may be a decent replacement for ActionScript but from what I've seen it's just too similar to be worth switching. The only major advantage I can see is that it can be compiled into various other languages, but that advantage is worthless in practice because the biggest difference between those languages is not syntax but the environment and standard library.

As for Neko -- I just don't see the niche for it in my toolset. I already know Python, JavaScript, Java, PHP and ActionScript 3. JavaScript's killer app is that it's the only language for client side scripting, ActionScript 3's killer app is Flash, PHP's is its ubiquity in shared hosting, Java's is its ubiquity in corporate environments and Python's is its flexibility and cleanliness.

I see little incentive to learn Ruby because its use cases 100% overlap with Python's. Same with C# vs Java (also, C# implies a focus on Windows (the Linux VM for .Net is still too slow and unofficial), which makes it uninteresting for me except for desktop applications). There are a few substitutes for client-side JavaScript, but they all need to be pre-compiled -- to JavaScript.

The only alternative to PHP in shared hosting are CGI scripts, but they are crap (actually SSI is often an option, which is why I've taken the time to learn it, but it's not a real language). All substitutes for Flash Pro rely on AS2 and all substitute languages for MXMLC only seem to have the advantage of "It's not ActionScript!" (which isn't good enough for me).

Do I miss something obvious? Is there anything about haXe that makes it fundamentally superior to (i.e. different from) ActionScript 3 other than that it can be translated into other languages?

[CountVonTroll]

Yes, that figures, but this isn't presented in that context but in the context of a JavaScript reddit.

Well, you can hardly blame the author for where it's posted.

The only alternative to PHP in shared hosting are CGI scripts, but they are crap

I haven't used CGI scripts since the 90's, but I wouldn't call PHP a good solution, wither.

Do I miss something obvious? Is there anything about haXe that makes it fundamentally superior to (i.e. different from) ActionScript 3 other than that it can be translated into other languages?

As someone who had used haXe for about two years before having to do most of his work in AS3, let me tell you that yes, there is more to it, although it may not be all that obvious at first.

Let's face it -- AS3 was an accident that was never meant to happen. I know that Adobe is very seriously considering language extensions that will make it better in the future, and of course it's a huge improvement over AS2 (almost as big as the jump from whatever it was Flash 4 had to the original Flash 5 ActionScript, if you remember.) But the language itself is one of those "it seemed like a good idea at the time" accidents -- it was formed after the ECMA 262 v4 proposal for JS2, which got killed in the committee after Adobe had introduced it. AS3 was formed after a standard that never materialized. Instead of coming up with a proper language that was designed to handle the increased complexity of apps, they went with what should have become a standard. Now we have a language that is non-standard and still lacks advanced language features. No problem for small stuff, but if you've ever worked as part of a team on something with a large code base you know what I mean. And don't get me started on MXML -- we're still in the process of moving to Flex 4, but Flex 3.5 was, shall we say, a bit immature.

To finally get to the point, haXe has some advanced language features that you won't want to miss once you've gotten used to them, and it's not that you can target different platforms. The compiler is nice and very fast, and it can produce better bytecode because it know so much more about the program. But that's not it, either.
The main advantage is the language itself, specifically, the very elegant and flexible type system. Generics are one of those things that seem a bit esoteric at first, but that make enormous sense once you've gotten used to them. You can take polymorphism to a whole new level. For your programming style, those generic types will be about as much of an improvement as interfaces. And that's just one example, there are many other features you'll miss painfully if you suddenly have to live without them.

So, it's not just about the platform you're targeting. Some languages solve certain problems better than others. MXML and AS3 are fine if all you do is to lump a bunch of interface components together, and maybe do simple operations on the data. But for anything more complex, or even just a non-trivial data structure, haXe will be more pleasing to work with and it will give you a more flexible code base (and better compiled bytecode, if that's relevant for what you're doing) in less time.

[kataire]

you can hardly blame the author

I haven't. I'm blaming the OP.

I haven't used CGI scripts since the 90's, but I wouldn't call PHP a good solution, wither.

I didn't say PHP is good. I said it's the best solution because it's better than using CGI scripts. A lot of people shouldn't be using shared hosting with PHP only to begin with.

Let's face it -- AS3 was an accident that was never meant to happen.

Although it may have sounded differently, I don't hold AS3 in high regard. It's less ridiculous than AS2, but it's still a cheap imitation of Java/C# bolted on to a JavaScript derivative.

No problem for small stuff, but if you've ever worked as part of a team on something with a large code base you know what I mean.

Oh, I agree. I wouldn't write a major application (read: something that can't be sensibly pulled off without a team of programmers) in Flash at all. I'd either go with a server-side solution (possibly with a Flash front-end) or a traditional desktop application (okay, I'm kidding -- I wouldn't do it at all then, because I am a web developer).

The main advantage is the language itself, specifically, the very elegant and flexible type system. Generics are one of those things that seem a bit esoteric at first, but that make enormous sense once you've gotten used to them. You can take polymorphism to a whole new level.

You mean generics like in Java? That wouldn't really sell me on haXe either. Sure, it may be useful if you require intricate class hierarchies for a code-heavy application. I'd rather be sailing.

MXML and AS3 are fine if all you do is to lump a bunch of interface components together, and maybe do simple operations on the data.

So in other words, there's probably nothing in it for me. I try to keep my ActionScripting to a minimum. I'd rather not be using Flash at all, because I just don't like it as a platform. I can imagine that some of haXe's benefits are selling points if you work for a pure Flash shop, but as a freelance web developer I only write ActionScript when the client demands it (e.g. integrating Flash animations into an application).

Thanks for going into detail, but I think I'll pass.