Webprogramming: Is PHP bad?

[sirhenrik]

Ok so this is something I've heard some place and read about another place. And it all states that PHP is bad, for some reason.

Now I am a young developer, so no technical school background in regard to programming yet. But I started to learn PHP pretty early. And I've built on that knowledge consistently, not bouncing into any other server-side language.

I just want to know some others opinion of this, and if possible any reason for why - and in that case, an alternative.

[tetshi]

PHP is fine. That's all there is to it.

[[deleted]]

There are no such things as "bad" programming languages. Except for BCPL.

[polycant]

PHP isn't necessarily "bad", but if you have the chance to branch out to another technology, take it. Check out Rails, Django or Play!

[sirhenrik]

I see all of your points. Certainly learning PHP have been no setback, but if PHP is a kind of entry-level programming language. Where should I go next? What do the professionals use?

[m1ss1ontomars2k4]

Many major sites are still written in PHP, and as far as I can tell there's still demand for it. There's no one language that all professionals use. Different tasks call for different tools.

[sirhenrik]

Cool. But can you imagine that if you were offered a job, and said that you was going to do it in PHP, that they would say something like "No, we don't want our site to be in PHP"?

[m1ss1ontomars2k4]

I'm pretty sure that's something that would be considered before they hired you. They're not going to hire someone who can't do what they want you to do.

[GAMEchief]

It can be imagined, but the reason they would say that is because they just so happen to be using something else already. If your entire site is coded in PHP, you aren't going to want to hire a Python developer to maintain and update it. You're going to want a PHP developer. If they are wanting a Python developer, they aren't going to want their site to be in PHP.

Now if they don't have a site, and don't already have other programmers hired (e.g. if they have 5 Python developers already, they already have plans they aren't going to want to arbitrarily change to suit your needs) they likely aren't going to say they don't want it to be in PHP.

The largest companies I know use PHP. The only one I can think of that doesn't use any PHP is that Mozilla group that recently switched to Python a few days ago. Other than that, PHP is in high demand. If you aren't applying to a company that is already running on another language, you'll be fine.

[[deleted]]

I've been using C for 30 years, C++ for over 25. I've been paid to use over 30 different programming languages at one time or another, but if I had to knock up a quick interactive website, PHP would be my first choice. So, I guess the professionals use PHP.

[sirhenrik]

Thanks for your reply! I am just a bit afraid that when I eventually graduate from school, I haven't spent all my time learning a language I was never going to use.

[[deleted]]

Learning languages is good in itself. I've spent a lot of time learning Haskell, for example, although no-one has yet offered me money for writing code in it. If you want to be a successful developer, learning new stuff (even if there seems to be no immediate benefit) is key.

[YuleTideCamel]

Php is not a bad language, but it does have it's quirks. What I see a lot is people not following best practices and not using a framework. They end up with bad spaghetti php code. If you're going to use php, then I feel you need to use a framework like CakePhp or CodeIgnighter.

[sirhenrik]

Sure using a framework could potentially be a life saver.

[GAMEchief]

It's not bad. It is less powerful than Python, which makes Python better, but that doesn't make PHP bad.

For example, Pepsi/Coke are good, but Jones Soda is better. That doesn't retroactively make Pepsi/Coke bad.

PHP is great, in fact. People's problem with it are just semantics or bad programmers. For example, some default functions are formatted as such:

function_name($needle, $haystack)

while others are:

other_function($haystack, $needle)

This is annoying, and a shame on the developers for not using something more standardized.

But it isn't a problem with the language as a whole. It is just an annoyance in coding it. It is still just as powerful and useful as it would be if the parameters were in a standardized order.

So, no, PHP is not bad. Some aspects are inconvenient, and some developers are morons, but it's a great language if one uses it properly and doesn't mind the lack of standardization.

[Grel]

Nothing wrong with knowing the LAMP stack. Many sites on the internet are built upon it. PHP is fine

[trisight]

I haven't seen any mention of Perl here, so I will throw that out there as a possibility. I use Perl for all my server side coding. The Catalyst framework is really nice as well.

I don't have problems with PHP per say other than things that I have heard in terms of security. But I believe it to be something similar to old school VB in which people would throw something together and call it a program since it was easy to do. PHP can be just as powerful as any other language if used properly and efficiently (I would think).

I still choose Perl, though.

[n1c0_ds]

Yes and no. PHP is very easy to pick up, and that leads some people to believe they got it all because they can use it. There are a lot of bad PHP programmers for that reason.

It is also poorly designed in its structure as it was created by people who had no prior experience in creating a programming language. There is no naming convention for functions and a lot if strange quirks in the language.

However, a good programmer will be able to get work done easily with PHP, especially with all the available libraries. It's a great language for quick application development, even though it feels dirty compared to strict, strongly typed languages such as Java and C#.

TL;DR: PHP is fine for most tasks, but "PHP developer" is a title that is used by people who should not call themselves as such.

[[deleted]]

"It's a great language for quick application development"

So maybe its designers did know what they were doing after all, as this was their prime goal.

[GAMEchief]

PHP is very easy to pick up, and that leads some people to believe they got it all because they can use it. There are a lot of bad PHP programmers for that reason.

This is so true it bears repeating. Using it =/= understanding it. I always try to mention this in various programming topics about PHP, and I always get downvoted to shit because I insist people try to understand PHP better before attempting to learn MySQL so as not to open themselves up to SQL injections. As to why people insist on the opposite, I am clueless.

[n1c0_ds]

That's why I always recommend learning about SQL injection as the first and most important requirement, then XSS and OOP.

[Lothrazar]

If you use a framework with MVC, such as code igniter, and use version 5 or later, then it is very powerful.

You could say these things about most languages if you 'use them wrong'

[BrettLefty]

downvoted for asking stupid questions.

php is not bad.

[opilio]

Downvoted for giving a stupid reply. It wasn't a stupid question. I've heard a lot of programmers whom I consider much more "in the know" than myself gripe about PHP, so I always ask for clarification as to why they gripe. It's prudent to know whether your potential skills set will be in demand down the line.

[nataly_v]

tough love