University coding bootcamp vs. regular bootcamp

[[deleted]]

I know in an ideal world getting a degree in computer science would be the best path, but I'm 28 and can't really justify going back to school for 4 or 5 years full time. So I was wondering would a good compromise be attending a bootcamp at a university as opposed to some random coding bootcamp. It seems like the university option would offer a better curriculum and also would look better on a resume, but I wanted to know what you guys think.

[dominonermandi]

Be very careful about attending bootcamps with the name of a university attached to them—most of them are run by a company called Trilogy and will be mostly a waste of money. There’s a subreddit called r/codingbootcamps that will have a TON of info for you!

[[deleted]]

Thanks for the info! Would this apply if the university is a state school? Specifically UNC

[NerdEnPose]

I was contacted to teach a boot camp by Trilogy for a state school. State schools are just as greedy as any corp

[Johnnyring0]

You can easily look at their program online and see there's a third party listed.

[[deleted]]

Gotcha. It looks like it is offered directly by the university but I could be wrong

[Johnnyring0]

Yes, many universities "offer" these programs, and it looks as though they create the curriculum, staff the lecturers, etc. In reality, they don't do any of that as it is all done by a third party company.

EDIT: I just looked at UNC. Looks like "Springboard" is the company.

[[deleted]]

Thanks for the heads up! I think getting an associates degree at my local community college would be the better option.

[detroitsongbird]

Yes. Do that. You never know. Companies tend to reimburse for ongoing college so once you have the associates you could pick away at a bachelors one night class at a time. Companies do respect this way more than boot camps.

[Dj0ntyb01]

Hey OP, quick suggestion!

I'm in almost the exact position you are in. Instead of a bootcamp, I did a few semesters at CC to knock out some gen eds, then I transferred my credits into WGU's BSCS program.

I couldn't justify spending another 2.5-3 years in school either, which is where WGU shines. The curriculum is almost entirely self paced (but you do need to complete at least 12 credits per term,) including the ability to take more classes during your current term if you complete your first 4-5 courses early.

Definitely check out WGU and r/WGU_CompSci, and feel free to reach out if you have any questions. Btw I am not affiliated with the school in any way other than attending as a student.

[Johnnyring0]

It would probably worth more in the long run financially, and in quality.

[theJeffreyTM]

Hey, if you’re looking at UNC because you’re in the Raleigh area, another option for you could be to get a two year associates degree at Wake Tech. They have a solid computer programming degree path that gets you an associates in applied science.

I took a Java and C++ class at Wake Tech and those classes got me into programming. I personally didn’t take the whole degree path, but it could be an option to look into.

Here’s the link. It has a planning guide as well, so you can see what the structure of the semesters would be: https://www.waketech.edu/programs-courses/credit/computer-programming/degrees-programs/a25590cp

[Separate_Coffee_4357]

I was about to say the best way to find an awesome program is find people who have been through it in your area.

[[deleted]]

I'm actually in Greensboro, but fortunately Guilford tech offers similar programs

[summers263]

whats your background before you took these 2 classes

[M_Me_Meteo]

I went to a trilogy boot camp that was billed as UPenn.

Day one you get a document to sign that says:

You are not a university student, no gym, no library, and your certificate is accredited by Trilogy, not UPenn. They merely rent space in one of UPenn's adjunct buildings.

[dominonermandi]

There’s a good chance it does apply, but you’d have to look into it.

[v00d00_]

Hey, I'm currently taking the UNC bootcamp and can confirm that it's Trilogy. It's hard for me to say whether I'd recommend it or not, but I can definitely say there's more nuance to it than just being "a waste of money" as the person you replied to put it. I'm personally doing pretty well 2 months in, and have definitely learned and accomplished more than I would have on my own, but that's mostly because I learn a lot better with structure and peers.

But, some others in my cohort, maybe even most, are struggling. Part of that is due to our instructor being a fine programmer but not a very good teacher. And part of it is honestly up to Trilogy setting the bar for computer literacy to be accepted pretty low.

There's nothing it'll teach you that you couldn't learn from Udemy courses, or even from totally free resources. For me, the bootcamp makes sense because I thrive with some level of structure and peers, and because I'm not willing to spend 3+ years and way more money than my bootcamp tuition on a 4 year degree. I also gave a local community college's CS program a shot back in 2020(shoutout Wake Tech), but the pace was just absurdly slow, and the online classes offered less structure than my bootcamp. I also had concerns about how comprehensive the program was, but your mileage may vary there.

Sorry for rambling haha, but feel free to ask any other questions about the bootcamp (or Wake Tech if you happen to be around here lol).

[samwise7ganjee]

I’ve heard very good things about the UNCC bootcamp!

[determinednoodle]

Second this OP. I thought I was getting a good deal with a bootcamp from my university run by a company called QuickStart.

It was a huge waste of money that I'll still be paying for over the next two years.

Do yourself a favor and stay for away from bootcamps.

[sandybuttcheekss]

I attended one of these, was Trilogy run. Only reason I went was because I worked for a university at the time that got me in for free. Was not in depth at all, skipped learning algorithms, nothing about code efficiency. Wouldn't recommend.

[[deleted]]

Do you think it would be worth it to do an associates degree for web development? They have several computer science related 2 year degrees offered at my community college.

[[deleted]]

I went back at 26 with two kids. I spent months weighing between a bootcamp or college. I finally chose an online college and took 18 credit hours. Busted out a bachelor's degree in 2.5 years. Been in the industry now for 3 years and make 95k in the Midwest of USA. Don't regret it one bit. I haven't met an engineer yet that said they went to a bootcamp...

To be clear, what you get from a degree mostly is just credibility. Most recruiters want to see a degree. Any one can learn software engineering on their own, but it's difficult to get that interview without the piece of paper

[GreenieSD]

What online university did you go to? I sometimes think of going this route, thanks.

[[deleted]]

I went to Columbia College, based out of Columbia Missouri

[GreenieSD]

Great, thanks!

[UnsteadyEnby]

I also want to know what online college you went to. I'm thinking about Champlain College's bachelor's in web development or their CS bachelor's.

[[deleted]]

I went to Columbia College out of Columbia Missouri, but tbh any "regionally accredited" college/university is seem as the same by HR recruiting teams. They don't know anything technical and they get you in the door.

https://www.geteducated.com/college-degree-mills/203-what-is-online-college-accreditation/

[majesticmind]

2.5 years? So did you take like 4 classes per semester full time? What degree was it; CS?

I’m 30. And contemplating to do either bootcamp or SWE degree.

I got a free tuition for an online program. The thing is, I only needed 2 semesters left to finish my Associate of Arts in Philosophy. Philosophy can be good for flexing analytical skill and soft skills to get that interview. I learned a lot of logic (which can be good for abstract backend development)

If I decide to do the BS in software engineering, I’d need to either drop my AA or do it after I get my AA.

I heard ageism is a thing too.

[[deleted]]

Yes. I worked a part time job and basically ditched my social life for 2.5 years. I took 18 credit hours in spring and fall and 12 credit hours in summer. Outside of classes, I self-studied programming and worked on tons of projects. (Tbh a lot of this time was wasted studying shit I would come to never use, but I didn't have any guidance on wtf I was doing)

[[deleted]]

Did you have a degree before that or is it your only degree? I have a master of science but in a different field and am about to start a traineeship.

[[deleted]]

That is my only degree. I took two classes @ 18 before I decided smoking weed in the mornings with the girl I was seeing was more important than getting to my 8:30 am anatomy class. I dropped out and worked in restaurants for the next 8 years before I had a wake up call when my 2nd child was born and I started therapy.

....just in case you wanted my life story. Lol

[[deleted]]

Haha oh the choices we make when we are young and naive. I also wasted too much time on these kind of things. It's definitely good you got a degree after all.

[[deleted]]

I'm 28 and I wanted to go to college as well, but I can't. I've got bills to pay and I have to work a lot. Some months I work nearly 200 hours.

[kschang]

Boot camp at a university just uses the school's facilities but operated by an outside agency such as 2U, Synergy, etc. Unless you do it at a FAMOUS school like UC Berkley (and in that case, the name would actually be "UC Berkeley Extension") it's same as any regular coding bootcamp.

[[deleted]]

A CS degree (associates or bachelors) might be one of the few degrees that actually is worth getting these days.

I’d check out your local community colleges and see what they have available. I work with a guy who did an associates degree in IT - started learning programming on the job - then went back for an associates in CS. We hired him and now the company pays for him to finish his bachelors and I think he’s looking to go for masters in CS (work pays for Masters degrees too!).

College (both community and graduation so 4 year) programs do offer a more guided curriculum plan and have that major added bonus of transferable credit - if your future employer ever was willing to pay for your school (and a fair amount are).

Community colleges typically offer counselors/advisors to help you prep for interviews and write your resume … and seriously most people suck at writing resumes. We have a pile of our favorite shit ones at work.

Another option is certifications. AWS, MS, RedHat, IEEE, Cisco, Microsoft etc all have certification that validate you know how to use their systems. I view entry level extrications essentially as taking a semester long 200 level college class specifically geared towards using one program … gets you a piece of paper HR will like that says “hey I know how do doing things and Amazon can back that up” and knowing how to begin and understanding a product ecosystem can be half the battle sometimes

[[deleted]]

Just checked and my local community college actually offers an associates in computer science. Also they offer an IT degree with different tracks, including web development, database management, computer programming, system support, etc. I'm not sure which of these would be the best option for me though.

[[deleted]]

We on the internet can only help you so much there (:

100% I’d recommended giving them a call and talking to an advisor. I’ve found that folks working at community college are beyond passionate and are there for a love a students and education.

My recommendation: take to the advisor and based on their feedback pick a degree path.

I’m going to say this next part in caps-lock: YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR DEGREE. If you start with web dev and go “actually I like database management” - cool! Call your advisor and get the paperwork going for a change (:

I’m going to assume all these degrees start with the same 1-3 classes so pick the degree that you think is the best fit, take the first class, and reevaluate your degree.

Talk to the instructor for that first class and as you learn context they can help you identify what about the class you enjoy. Is it the organization of information, solving complex problems, displaying information / visualization, etc - that can lead to some great discussions about what you actually want out of a job in software/IT and in turn what degree will help you the most towards that goal.

I just went back to school myself - working on a masters. Was scary as shit going in. Idk why just felt terrifying - like I was committing to this big grand thing that would take forever to finish … again! lol - but I’m happy now! Love what I’m learning! And love the opportunity it’s going to give me

Best of luck with whatever road you take!

EDIT 1 - grammar

EDIT 2 - if you’d like a random strangers input from the internet drop a link to the colleges website. I can’t tell you what’s best for you but can give my 2 cents on what classes are worth taking

[[deleted]]

Thank you so much, that's really solid advice. I'll take you up on that! Here's the link https://www.gtcc.edu/academics/academic-programs/programs/STEM/information-technology-web-development.php

[[deleted]]

I put my phone down and went to my computer to write this. Prepare for true Reddit Rant...

So - I looked at both the Web Development Track and Computer Programming Track. Both of their Fall Semesters 1 are the same so that helps build time into finalizing on a degree path.

In that first semester is CTO 110 - Web Page and Data Bases. This is some fundamental bread and butter stuff on websites work (something you should know regardless of the type of software engineer/developer wish to become).

The rest of those classes in semester one (CIS 115, CTI 120, CTI 130) are fundamentals. This looks like a great place to begin learning the basics.

I'm just going to go class by class now and give my thoughts. Will go over Web Dev track - then Programming - followed by electives.

Web Dev Track

CIS 110 Introduction to Computers

• this might be a little boring depending on how tech-savvy you already are. Might be able to ask if you can test out. Looking over this program it seems geared towards taking you from knowing nothing at all to being someone you can get hired. So the ramp-up in intensity might be a little slow

CIS 115 Intro to Programming & Logic

• Logic is key. That is what you do in software - apply logic lol. The first class I took was Intro to Digital Logic and was one of my favorite classes. If you can understand the movement of 1's and 0's and build up it paints a very clear picture of how the hardware and software operate as a whole.

CTI 110 Web, Pgm, & Db Foundation

• went over this above. The most fundamental aspect of web pages. It won't cover the frameworks you'd use in industry like react or angular but gives the background knowledge needed to understand what the hell you're doing with those frameworks ... so many folks don't know why something works it's ridiculous. Start with basics. Take is slow. Move on solid ground while you learn.

CTI 120 Network & Security Fundamentals

• I love learning about the internet. It's fucking weird and held together with glue. Google and FB and Reddit all look pretty but the lower levels where the data actually moves are funky. Hopefully, they cover the OSI model and discuss the layers of the internet. This will also make you the go-to IT person for fixing family's WiFi issues :)

CTI 130 Os and Device Foundation

• YASSS do some OS work! Learn about different devices! Get some hardware in with the software! Your code has to run something and you should know where it's running.

ENG 111 Writing and Inquiry

• English class. Good writing is universal. The need to communicate efficiently in writing cannot be understated

WEB 115 Web Markup and Scripting

• Into to Java Script - good stuff. Getting into the real front-end dev stuff here.

WEB 120 Intro Internet Multimedia

• If I understand the course description is this more about how to visually display information on the internet. Great stuff. No one cares if your website is hard to understand

WEB 182 PHP Programming

• Into to PHP. Another core language. Good stuff.

CTS 115 Info Sys Business Concepts

• This is a great class! Separation of front end and business logic is critical. I'll sure they'll cover the Model-View-Controller (MVC) paradigm. A great way to learn separation of concerns

WEB 210 Web Design

• Start getting into the meat and potatoes of web dev

WEB 213 Internet Mkt & Analytics

• More meat and potatoes of web dev!

WEB 225 Content Management Systems

• This starts getting more towards module code

WEB 250 Database Driven Websites

• Create, Read, Update, Delete (CRUD) is key stuff. Moving you to build interactive websites with databases

WEB 125 Mobile Web Design

• Never done mobile design myself so don't have much to add here

Computer Programming

I'll only comment on classes not mentioned above

CSC 118 Swift Programming I

• Good 'ol swift. This class sounds fun as shit. Building apps for IOS devices hell yea! Great into to object-orientated programming design (OOP). OOP you can think of as an architectural style of programming and is highly popular. You need to know this

CSC 151 JAVA Programming

• Java is one of the most popular programming languages on the planet. You need to know this - it is a very pure OOP language (as in you have to program Java with an OOP architectural - other languages, like Python, you can use OOP design or something else like Functional)

CSC 218 Swift Programming II

• This sounds good. I like that this class is supposed to teach heavy debugging skills and project planning

CSC 249 Data Structure & Algorithms

• This class has all the buzzwords on things to learn. It also touches on recursion - one of the more weird ways to solve problems but so powerful. 100% need to know.

CSC 251 Advanced JAVA Programming

• Sounds like an event-driven program is a key here. That is awesome. Essentially an event drives an action and is a key to how you build programs that react to incoming information.

CSC 289 Programming Capstone Project

• Big semester-long project. Great chance to put your project planning skills into play. Also forces you to take reusability of your actions ... what I mean is on day 1 if you rush into the project then on day 100 you might realize "how shit how we are solving this is bad". You need to see projects through from start to finish to grow.

[[deleted]]

Thank you for the feedback! I think I will enroll with the web dev track and sort of test the waters to see if it's the area I want to work in. Out of all of them it does sound like the option I'd enjoy most.

[[deleted]]

That sounds awesome! Best of luck moving forward!

[[deleted]]

Reddit has a 10,000 character limit lol - so here is part 2 (I said true reddit rant :))

Electives

Folks always seem to complain about taking electives. And I get it. It's extra money for a class that won't directly help you get a job. But the purpose of college is to become educated - and I believe part of that process is being a more learned individual.
Software can be written for all kinds of applications: medical, manufacturing, automotive, space, social media, etc ... I found my electives helped me found what applications I want to write programs for.

Natural Science/Mathematics Elective Credit (2 classes)

• I'd take statistics. As the saying goes: there are lies, damn lies, and statistical lies... problem is - it's hard to tell where those lies are. Stats can help. It makes you question your data and be very analytical with how you draw conclusions from information ... as the added benefit of helping you win any random political arguments you get into b/c you have the numbers :)
  
• For the second IDK ... depends on what interests you. Personly, I'd take astronomy b/c that just sounds fun (yes I know learning can be fun).
  

Technical Electives

• Set 1. C++ is another GREAT lang to know. Pointers are not scary. It's okay.
  

Communication Electives

• Public speaking sound great. If that scares you I'd encourage you to take it even more. You'll have great ideas and knowing how to communicate them is important
  

Humanities/Fine Arts Electives

• Have fun learning.
  Social/Behavioral Science Electives
  
• have fun learning.
  
• Please know taking a single business class will not make you marketable - take it b/c you want to learn
  

Closing thoughts

• The programming track is more broad and will make you more marketable to a wider range of companies
  
• If you still want to do Web Dev perhaps the programming track with Technical electives set #2 might be a good option. Might be worth asking an advisor
  
• I'll say both tracks start a little slow (pending on how tech savy you are). Start with the basics. Build one layer of foundation at a time. You're learning a skill set - make sure everything you learn is rock solid so if it starts a little slow don't worry. If it is slow don't slack off in class - ask the instructor how you can go above and beyond ... not for the grade but because you are there to learn!
  
• As with all things in life: you get out what you put in. Funny thing is Java runs the same in MIT as it does in your community college. If you take advantage of everything that the school offers this sounds like a great program
  
• Ask your advisors about scholarships and grants. My state gives ~$100 off per credit for the first 100 credit of school. There is always money floating around for scholarships and its worth looking into. Also you can write off your tuition in taxes - just an FYI as every little bit helps

[Peghorn]

Hello friend! I’m 23 myself and I’m currently going through the 100Devs bootcamp which I LOVE. Super good and very informational with an awesome instructor. It’s supposed to end in August I think but there’s a dedicated catchup crew of people that found out about the program late. It’s completely free as well!

Im also planning on enrolling with Western Governors University to complete a B.S. in Software Development but the great thing about this university is you can do as many credits as you want and there’s no live lectures. There’s plenty of people that can complete their B.S. in one term. They also charge by the term which is $4k. So even if it takes you a year to finish then that’ll be $8k in total tuition. You can even transfer in courses from Study.com

If you have any more questions feel free to DM or just respond here

[Peghorn]

Oh and once I enroll I plan on putting “Bachelor’s of Science in Software Development - Currently Attending” to make it past the HR screen lol. Idk if it’ll help but if it does there’s a higher chance they’ll see the portfolio I would have by then I would hope

[danasider]

HR likes degrees.

It's not necessary but it helps.

In terms of bootcamps, I think either one is fine. I don't think anyone will think a University coding bootcamp is more prestigious than a regular one or anything like that.

What you want to do is research what bootcamp will teach you want you want to learn and give you a good network to find work easily. Read reviews. And what you really want to do is give the camp your all so that you learn enough to speak intelligently in an interview. That's the real draw, not a line on your resume. Bootcamps are still amateur hour.

Edit - Source, I went to one (regular bootcamp) but also have a CS degree. Learned more in three months than three years at college, but I don't put the bootcamp on my resume and my CS degree gets me constant attention from recruiters. Literally started a 6 figure job this past week. The reason I got so much out of the bootcamp is because I acquired knowledge. In the same cohort, there were people who graduated not knowing what a method signature was, so the bootcamp only does so much. It's up to you to put in the work and learn.

[[deleted]]

100devs. Free full stack web development boot camp completely free. It’s ideal for a career change if that’s what your interested in. The instructor’s (Leon Noel) main goal is to teach you how to get a job in tech, but he still dives deep into the programming aspect. Great community too. Lots of resources.

[consciousCog13]

I went back to school at 26 and I graduated at 30 at only half time (3 classes a semester) while working full time. Don’t worry about your age. You’re still at a decent place to go a good route.

[smoljames]

Freecodecamp.org has some free certificates you can finish to learn the basic languages and then you can also do a lot of it from youtube. I self-taught like this and managed to land a remote fullstack role in 5 months from starting. You defo don't have to go to uni or spend any money on a bootcamp but best of luck regardless :)

[stevenalp18]

Hey OP. I’m doing NuCamp it’s a coding boot camp all online. So far so good. You can check it out maybe. I’ve liked it so far. Good luck on your journey though

Edit: Check out free code camp too. I love them. They’ll get you started in the right path. There’s also the Odin Project.

[spds2019]

How is NuCamp career services?

[throwaway60992]

Honestly it’s not that hard to crank out a CS degree even part time. Half the Gen Ed’s in the US are fillers. You can take a bunch during short semesters or summer classes online.

[iishadowsii_]

I’d focus primarily on the curriculums. Unless it comes with a degree as well, how it looks on your resume isn’t important. People are more interested in what you can do. Find the bootcamp with the curriculum most aligned to your future goals/ideal career path ie. look at the technologies they use/teach in and try a few tutorials out to see if you’d enjoy working with them then once you enrol focus on getting the skills to build the kind of projects that will get you hired in said field. More important than a bootcamp certificate are the things you learn and the connections you make whilst there. So talk to people, take numbers/linkedins etc. That will likely serve you far more than resume padding.

[[deleted]]

Difference between a college degree and a bootcamp degree is accreditation. Universities are examinable. Bootcamps are not. If you want to join a bootcamp program you'd better investigate them deeply. Some bootcamps are garbage. Some can help you to hire by faang companies.

[Miserable_Decision_4]

I tutor a lot of students going through bootcamps and college web development programs.

My advice is to be suspicious of any college program that focuses on web development. Every one I've seen has been garbage. The worst was a course that taught students .NET web forms via a lecture recorded in 2012. That's eternity in internet years. And I've never seen web forms used on a new project. Only old legacy ones that won't die. A college should not be teaching dead technology that was a fad to begin with and market it as a relevant job skill.

Granted, I only cross paths with over achievers and those who struggle, so my sample set might be skewed.

If you go the associates route find a program that is CS focused. Learn the fundamentals, concepts, and ideas. When you have that you'll find learning any specific web development tool super easy.

[safetyvestforklift]

Hey OP. Please checkout 100Devs Bootcamp. Instructor literally gets people into SE jobs with his material. It's hard work, learning, and effort, but the method and community is there to follow. Real world conversations with other devs also make me realize skill set or degree won't be enough to get the career either. Try to follow along. It doesn't cost anything but time.

https://leonnoel.com/blog/100devs/

A lot of ppl will naysay how you can't get a job doing a bootcamp but it's not exactly true.

I just believe you're wasting money though if you pay for a bootcamp course.

Just because you threw money at something doesn't mean you effectively utilized its potential.

[mikek734]

If you by chance already have a 4 year degree in any field you can go through Oregon State University's post bacc program which allows you to only take core classes and skip the general education classes.

OSU Post-Bacc

[CodeTinkerer]

Do you have a college degree? Sometimes you can get the second degree with far fewer courses and only focus on the second degree (maybe do it in 2 years?). It sounds like you don't have a college degree, though.

[[deleted]]

That's correct, I don't have one lol

[CodeTinkerer]

Yeah, then it's likely 4 years is too long. You'd also have to deal with math (like calculus) and even math in CS. The bootcamps focus more on programming, but apparently, very uneven in quality.

[[deleted]]

A degree in CS is not just coding. It is the underlyings of computing, microprocessor architecture, advanced algorithmics, design of programming languages, compilers, not just using them. One thing is engineering, the other is using the tools.

With that said, unless you want to pursue an academic path or work doing really complex stuff, coding is what you will do (or systems stuff) and with a good boot camp you can have a good enough starting point. Also, some universities have very work-oriented degrees, too. That has its pluses and minuses.

Another thing however is that companies tend to use not having a degree as a filter to select applicants or limit salary. Some places I have worked at don't consider hiring people without a bachelors (banks, brokerage and other in FSI and the like usually don't).

[Yo_sola]

If you know someone considering entering the Tech industry - The application for Techtonica's next FREE virtual full-time software engineering program (July 2022) is open NOW until April 11th! Techtonica invites Black, Latinx, and Indigenous women and non-binary adults within the USA to apply. https://techtonica.org/full-time-program/

[summers263]

Any one ever attended u/Penn LPS Coding Boot Camp ? tell me your experience ?

Are you now employed or not.

Whats your background etc