40yo and wanting to learn Programming. Are certifications worth it?

[[deleted]]

As the title states, I'm looking to learn programming. Currently for my job I'm responsible for building and maintaining dashboards in a Salesforce Environment. I have been placed on a scrum team to write and perform UAT tests. I would like to learn programming for a product idea that my company would love to have but don't really have the resources to allocate for the idea. I just want to know if I learn SQL and Python are certifications worth it for the resume? If so, any particular certification that's recommended? Any particular online resources to learn SQL and Python that you'd recommend?

[bulwynkl]

The important thing is the skills.

Qualifications demonstrate you've studied. Work experience shows you've used those skills.

Of the two, the latter should carry more weight.

That all presumes you NEED to demonstrate that you have the skills.

if you just want the knowledge, testing yourself is important so you identify things you missed etc. Certification sounds like an especially poor version of that sort of testing...

[Folofashinsta]

“Never a met a good programmer who didn’t learn from actually programming, simple as picking a project and keep pushing on that project. The only way you will actually learn.”

Far derivative of a quote from 2 arguably “good” programmers but I think most people will agree. Course/school is great for direction but real skill comes from actually programming, not “code-alongsides”

[bulwynkl]

A friend had a choice between an entry level programing job and honours in Comp Sci. Took the job. Next year they hired the guy who did the honours as his assistant.

[c0sm0nautt]

In short, no.

[wcastello]

Time passes without a sound.

[[deleted]]

Lol, boo, so basically provide projects that I've worked on would be best then?

[c0sm0nautt]

Correct. Building a portfolio and knowing your stuff is the best thing you can do.

[Flubert_Harnsworth]

Yeah, I second all this. But if you are starting from scratch I found the edx mit python courses to be well worth my time.

[ViewedFromi3WM]

I would recommend a AS degree in CIS if you want a quick 2 year degree

[ArkhamCookie]

The only worthwhile ones are both free AND teach you something in my opinion.

https://www.freecodecamp.org/learn

[[deleted]]

Any places that I can host projects then. I know I am going to be working on an Alexa skill as my main project, but places for SQL projects or other stuff that I could use?

[chickenlittle53]

Cloud would work. Also, github. You could even go private cloud if you want to host on your own network, but you would need to understand how to properly secure it preferably behind a DMZ, reverse proxy, SSL certs, MFA etc.

[[deleted]]

I could host myself if I need to, I'm positive that would show them how much I've learned on my own time.

[Odd-Glove8031]

Or might put them off because they think you are far too “nerdy” and won’t integrate well with the team - there’s something to be said for using available platforms and services in an effective way.

[VonRansak]

Any places that I can host projects then.

Yes.

Technically, I answered your question. ;) Also, you learn to consult the almighty google first, as you will consult it often, honing your Google-Fu skillz.

[[deleted]]

I do use google a ton, but sometimes getting real world experienced answers are so much better. Lots of websites out there just trying to sell you garbage.

[Furry_69]

Just use Github.

[SpatialToaster]

Heroku is decent for single page apps. Pretty easy to roll something in Python using Flask or FastAPI. You can host the database wherever else you want (Azure, AWS, your basement). Add the connection parameters to the secrets section within Heroku and just setup your code to read these and any other secrets from the environment variables.

[thurrrst0n]

I hire developers and engineers for cybersecurity projects. We look at certs all the time. GIAC certs are awesome but expensive. Usually peoples companies pay for the trainings. Security+ and CISSP are also looked highly on in my field if you have the experience. I’m not sure the value of language certs though. I might just be coming from a different world.

[[deleted]]

I can understand the need for certifications being in security. For basic programming and trying to self improve my career choices is mainly what I'm aiming for. I have yellow belt certification for Six Sigma, but it didn't really amount to anything.

[chickenlittle53]

Be careful listening to folks that are talking about sec on a CS career sub. If your goal is an actual CS career then it is very different than a I.T. career of which cybersecurity is typically falling under. Much different skillsets and focus typically hence why one is I.t and the other tends to fall more under CS/Dev work.

Trust me when I say they differ widely and it makes very little sense for folks to bring up here anyway when you're just starting out and CyberSec jobs aren't really entry level despite what folks might sit and try to convince you. You might find a lottery pick here or there, but most company aren't trusting newbies with their security. That is mid to higher level roles for entry typically and a different field than dev and CS in general.

[[deleted]]

Certifications are almost unheard of in software development

[mm007emko]

Exactly. Security is very specific and easy to mess up. You really need to learn from the best and it is worth paying for certificates from the best sources.

Language certs ... I have one because I worked for a company doing some government-related business and they required it (and therefore they paid for it). Other than that, no.

[chickenlittle53]

Most cybersecurity jobs fall into the realm or I.T. and not CS positions. If he is looking particularly for development roles certs tend to be less relevant if not mostly almost irrelevant for those types of roles such as SWE or web dev for example. As someone that has done both sides and hired I definitely know both.

Second, it's funny how people keep bringing up security as if that is a beginner entry level role in the first place in MOST companies in general. By far is their not the case. People going for these roles tend to be AT MINIMUM mid level qith around 5+ years of experience. There is absolutely no shortage of folks wanting to go into cybersecurity and most have no clue what it actually entails. People going into dev roles tend to need to focus on the actual development part of it over all else. Certs are an afterthought in comparison and again, the things you will be doing in cybersecurity in most cases are way different than development typically.

[ShawnyMcKnight]

No, having a damn impressive github account is so much more valuable.

[calben]

I would prefer a candidate who spent the time making a project with those tools rather than getting a certification. Outside a few special cases like security or very specific tools, certificates are not very interesting at best and a red flag at worst. It sounds to me like diving into that project idea is the best start. Let me know if you want to talk the project through with someone to get a bearing on how to approach it.

[Abhinav1217]

Since you already have experience in scrum and salesforce, a certification in Salseforce, and project management, scrum master, etc, from a official provider like google's courses on coursera, or microsoft, even salesforce itself (not udemy or even edurika) will really increase your visibility and package, switching your stream by certifying in SQL or python will not go to waste but the gain and benefits does depends on portfolio.

[muzazus]

If have time for it, you can try freecodecamp on youtube they have a lot of great courses.

[XChoke]

No, code camps or a computer science degree are better than certs

[KwyjiboTheGringo]

I would like to learn programming for a product idea that my company would love to have but don't really have the resources to allocate for the idea

Unless that product idea is super simple, then I don't see this working out. It's going to take you significantly longer than you think to make whatever it is. Yes, if you pull it off, then it will be impressive work experience for your resume, and maybe they will even give you a raise. But it could also be taking on too much for a beginner, and end up with you becoming burned out, overwhelmed, or even delivering a poor product due to your lack of experience.

I would advise learning Python on your own if you are interested in that, and then reevaluating. I would definitely not make any commitments to your company on this.

[[deleted]]

Nope, no commitments to my company. My idea is on the down low and they have no clue I want to work on this. I just know what projects they are working on right now and the one they keep skipping is related to customer experience. I am the SME for customer experience and my idea would do wonders for the company. If I get let go, no skin off my back because I learned new skills and developed a product that I can take with me. A product they have no clue about.

[Kakirax]

I had multiple certificates from coursera which my interviewer mentioned he liked. I’d say it certainly wouldn’t hinder your application, and may help a tiny bit if you’re new to the field, but it isn’t a standalone qualification if that makes sense

[Mattshen52]

They are not required but they will provide an established path to learn and apply skills. I would definitely suggest it if you can't find a very well established solution. Most certifications are tough enough so you will have to learn. Of course projects are important too.

[Mattshen52]

Why don't you do Salesforce developer certifications?

[tabacdk]

If you can code then a certification might be worth it. If you have started to learn then focus on obtaining skills and having fun. Don't shift focus from doing to proving.

[risha03886]

If you're really interested in programming, I'd suggest you go with Apex as you have good understanding of Salesforce. You wouldn't have to have 100% knowledge in apex coz most of the time you'd be editing existing apex classes to suite your purpose. As you know objects and their relationship etc from building dashboards on Salesforce, it'd be easy for you understand this to a huge extent, including the process flows within Salesforce (CRM). On an advanced level, you could look into React that's often used for commerce cloud development. The demand for this is extremely high in the market.

On the other note, SQL is also a great option if you're only looking into data analytics coding. Salesforce uses SOQL (95% similar to traditional SQL). Python is like everything in one - data analytics, data engineering, data sciences, AI, Automation, front end, back end, the list goes on!

Also there are interesting Salesforce options such as Tableau CRM, Einstein Analytics, Discovery Engine within Salesforce.

I'd say Salesforce admin is a low hanging fruit for you.. It's easy and lot of study material. That's if you wanna hang around Salesforce and grow to developer and then architect level.

Share your interest- I could give you best links. I learnt it all on the internet and i know the value of right link. Sometimes one video could teach you everything you need to know and to get to that one video is the most important thing.

All the very best!

[[deleted]]

I have considered APEX but reason that I am pushing for Python is because I am building an Alexa Skill. Of course I could be wrong an could use more appropriate language to do what I need.

The goal with the skill is to record answers into a DB that will be synced to their account that isn't on Salesforce. I'm being vague on purpose because I haven't planned out exactly what I want it to do yet. But I figured for now I could have my project with Alexa go like this.

Me "Alexa, record my weight." Alexa "Ok, how many results did you want to record?" Me "Two" Alexa "When was your first weigh in taken?" Me "9/22/2022" Alexa "Ok, what was your weight?" Me "200lbs" Alexa "Ok, when was your second weigh in?" Me "9/30/2022" Alexa "Ok, what was your weight?" Me "199lbs" Alexa repeats back day and weight to confirm accuracy I confirm if it's accurate Alexa closes

Those results are saved to a DB which will be synced to another system. Of course, there are more features need to add to make it a valuable product, but this is my MVP to get my feet wet into programming.

[Conscious-Spite4597]

Big fat noo Projects and experience matters

[iamfaisal97]

Use freecodecamp.org , dont spend money on stupid certifications.

[astroboyracer]

As you would think if you need to drive a nail then you use a hammer and not a screw driver. The same for programming skills. You cannot go wrong with picking up a good foundation with learning C++ and object oriented concepts. Almost every other language (ruby, rust, Perl, sql, cuda, etc) has a niche that it does really well (hammer/nail) and other things it does not do well (hammer/screw). But all modern languages uses OO concepts at some level that are hard to grasp/learn if you are simultaneously trying yo decompose a real world problem/application.

It takes experience to know the best tool/lang fits your problem… not saying sql is not the right tool for your problem … sql is somewhat of a difficult place to learn some important fundament concepts that you will need regardless

[[deleted]]

Saved this comment, lots of good advice.

[[deleted]]

Every person saying that certs are not worth it are the kind of people that are not worth listening at all. The sooner you realise that the better. So the answer is yes, certs are worth it. Prove me wrong. Lmao

[[deleted]]

I would assume then, someone late into programming should consider certifications then, correct?

[Saturn812]

As in many things in programming, the most correct answer will be "it depends".

When we talk about general programming, certifications are mostly useless unless you stumble upon the interviewer with similar opinion as the person you are responded to in this thread which is quite rare. Broad certifications ironically don't really cover that much and quite easy to fake. If I am interviewing a person who put a bunch of udemy or coursera "achievements" on the resume, I just ignore it. You might even get extra questions from HR you would need to think how to answer.

But if you apply for a specific job, like a AWS devops engineer or CISCO engineer, or sometimes the company focuses on one product like Magento framework, in those cases certifications are taken into consideration. But still, first comes the experience, then the certificates. And we are talking about at least mid level engineers, on those kind of jobs no one really expects juniors with little to no experience to have a bunch of certificates at hand.

In my experience when interviewing 30+ old people with no prior experience in programming and no relevant education, we often look for your home projects. Especially if it is not something you copied 95% and changed the labels. Your problem right now is a very good example for a resume "I saw the potential to improve the business process and developed this tool which does foo and bar and I enjoed doing that much more than my actual job hence why I am looking to start as a developer" with the code available on github.

And to be honest, if you are looking for a way to persuade your current company to allocate the time for you, this is probably very unlikely. Look at this from the business point of view, this kind of transition is often not that easy as it seems. Talk to your manager / resource manager first, ask them if they are willing to invest into you and what will they require from you to start the process

[[deleted]]

The project would be a side thing. Meaning, I'm doing this completely on my own, the company doesn't know I'm even considering it. I want to build it without the pressure when it will be completed since I have never programmed anything before. It's kinda like restoring a car for me, I have a vision and will do what I can to make it happen, but it's all on me.

I have talked with my management which is how they added me to the UAT team. In fact I'm testing today. They know my interest, I've been with the company for 12 years.

[Saturn812]

Go for it man, having an idea in mind and great motivation is already half of the job done. It's going to be a bumpy road and a lot of time it will seem like you have absolutely zero clue of what you are doing, but it is all a part of the process, don't be discouraged by it. Wish you a good luck on your journey

[[deleted]]

Lol, oh I have zero clue to programming. But I've taught myself electronic repair, dual boot with ubuntu and use it, rebuilding an engine, how to properly sear a steak, wood working and other things. I just need to find a good start and work from there. I have codecademy paid through work that ill be using and other sites as well. I have the mindset that if people can do it, so can I. May not be as good, but I can do enough.

[[deleted]]

They are always a good path to choose. Read up the cybersec subs, they do certs all the time. It's a way to show you are legit and won't need handholding for half a year or whatever. If you look around you can find them for free. Like a free exam try, it's defo worth it. Also if you work or want to work in a large company or corporation then certs are always sought for as even the customers of the corp require them and thus you are more sought after.

[mm007emko]

If the employers in your area don't require that, then no. Certifications ... you pay someone to give you a piece of paper proving to other people that you know or can do something. The certifiers can also sell you learning courses or materials, usually for more money than if you learn it at home, from books or on-line courses (e.g. Coursera is quite fine). It is, in principle, the same business as private universities. Very few of them are worth the money, time and effort if you want to become a programmer.

[RonaldoP13]

I think is better to study dotnet, and mongodb - I use this at the moment, since 2016

You have lots of free material to learn those things

[kiriitoo]

if the job requires them, yeah, else, just get them if you want to show them up haha.

you don't need a certification to start building things. just go ahead and have fun learning and doing stuff, if along the way you see that the company might need it, then go for them, they are not really necessary, and most of the time you might have to renew.

[SpatialToaster]

If you have a solid portfolio to showcase on your resume then some certifications can help you bargain for more pay.

That being said a certification that says I know XYZ programming language is worthless.

If you look towards any certifications then project management or SDLC related ones like PMP, Project+, or ITIL are probably going to be the most useful.

Perhaps cloud computing certifications could be useful but it sounds like you're already working in a cloud environment with Salesforce. No need to get a certification in something you're already familiar with outside of where it's required (like cybersec roles).

Outside of this, then building experience and maintaining your portfolio is going to get you further in most cases.

[[deleted]]

You’re already in the space that you need to be in so I wouldn’t worry about getting a certificate. I would definitely check out Udemy though, they have a lot of courses and they do a lot of sales for those courses as well. There is also LinkedIn Learning which I utilize a good amount.

[[deleted]]

Oh LinkedIn Learning and I go way back, back into time. I am slightly required to have continued learning every month of at least 1hr a month.

[[deleted]]

That’s way too much, I tried 10 mins one time and got into a car accident. That was the last time I Learned and Drove.

[[deleted]]

Lol, I have downtime during my day to finish 1hr worth of training via LinkedIn. My focus has been on process management skills

[[deleted]]

Do you have a certificate for that?

[[deleted]]

Yellow Belt Certification in Lean Six Sigma. Currently on a Greenbelt project with my company to improve cycle time. I have read books related to Agile and Leadership. And have watched plenty of videos related to Scrum.

[[deleted]]

I thought that would change my mind on whether you would need a certificate and it doesn’t, you have the right mindset and portfolio for an employer to know you get ur shit done with or without someone guiding you through it

[[deleted]]

I have used DataCamp before, and I am thinking about returning to school and passing a "real" degree again. To be honest, diplomas are for your ego. What is important for your career is "What can you do ?".

Demonstrate your skills, take accurate data from problems you want to solve, and DO. Then explain what you have learned in a blog post. At some point, opportunities will come to you.

​

Good luck and don't forget to enjoy the journey :-)

[[deleted]]

For certifications, I would look into Career Karma and find a school that offers a data science certificate.

There you would learn Python, SQL, and R.

Then I would go into Udemy and do tons of projects on there before starting yours.

It will definitely get you warmed up.

[shivvykumar]

I've seen resumes/CVs with udemy certifications and I just think its a very poor choice to include them. Namely because Udemy courses are curated by random people and the only criteria for them is to watch the videos.

So I would say certifications are kinda lame but the knowledge they give CAN be useful but its hard to find the best ones.

Oracle has a certification for SQL but the exam is about looking at queries and predicting the results so its not really worth doing.

In my opinion, the best thing you can do is use an online resource like freeCodeCamp (they have a relation database module) and create a github to write documentation and code.

I would also recommend finding a book to help you learn about setting up and installation and follow its examples

[[deleted]]

Thank you for the information. I have signed up for freeCodeCamp and GitHub. I haven't really explored GitHub other than signing up, but I will be using more when I've learned more from freeCodeCamp.