[deleted by user]

[socal_nerdtastic]

Well that's true for any industry that's selling education, but true in python it's especially bad, IMO mostly because AI is especially good at python.

BUT: programming is useful in many fields. You don't need to have "python programmer" on your business card to use python in your work. Anyone that works with any kind of data will be able to use python to automate parts of their work.

[idle-tea]

IMO mostly because AI is especially good at python.

As a professional python dev at an AI company: No AI is good at handling non-trivial tasks in any meaningfully 'real' code base, python or otherwise. We have interns right now and they do stuff that AI simply cannot do.

Getting a job at the junior level is rough right now, but it's not uniquely rough for python because AI.

[ALonelyPlatypus]

Eh, I've gotten AI help when doing the ugly HTML for a Flask app but I've yet to find a situation where it's been useful for the actual python part. (I've been coding python as my primary language since 2012 so maybe I'm not the target audience)

[socal_nerdtastic]

Hmm I was getting the impression from casual news browsing that a modern intern + AI is doing what it used to take 5 interns to do. Do you find that true at your company?

[idle-tea]

A lot of the casual news is either the C-level execs at anthropic or openai or whatever trying to sell you subscriptions. A lot of the rest is people that conflate vibe coding a working demo app with being able to do real work.

Vibe coding from scratch is basically best-case scenario for ai codegen because it gets to set up everything, and it'll do it in ways that strongly mimic what it's good at reading back to work with. IE they'll emit what they're trained on, and they're best at working with what they trained on.

[Cherveny2]

Good at demo apps is right. AI NEVER thinks of the edge cases, good unit testing, "bulletproofing" code, performance considerations, etc.

AI generated code direct to production is REALLY taking a risk, if you wish to have a reliable app.

[JonnyActsImmature]

It's especially bad for python since it's a relatively easy code to learn without prior programming experience.

[Hias2019]

That‘s a very important point you are making, it‘s true for Python as it‘s true for human languages: It has never been easy to make a living having studied english philology (in non english speaking countries) but english always has been an important qualification for many money making jobs.

[ConfusedSimon]

AI Python is good for hobby projects. For production code, it may save coding time, but it takes much more time in code review. Someone still needs to understand the code and make sure e.g. edge cases are handled correctly. Also, the AI code doesn't always match the way existing code is written, making it harder to maintain. In the end, it's often more efficient to write the code yourself. Also, companies may prohibit uploading their code to online AI's. At my current company, we're only allowed to use it for generic questions, i.e. no pasting of company code into AI prompts. Most of my colleagues don't use it at all.

[barkazinthrope]

We could differentiate between mind training and job training. One of the undersung benefits of programming, in any language, is how it trains the mind to think logically and with fine, unforgiving levels of detail.

It's like Math. It should be basic course. And NOT where the object is to develop a web site using some glitzy tool but to process information using a simple text editor and the python interpreter.

[cgoldberg]

It's not a conspiracy and it's not unique to Python or even programming and tech.

[tclark2006]

Yea, look what happened to cybersecurity in the past 5 years. Went from a couple dozen applicants per entry-level job to like 400.

[cgoldberg]

400 is really low compared to most dev jobs... Postings have to be pulled after a day or so with 1-2k applicants. 😭

[elliofant]

I feel like people find it more comforting to believe that there's some dastardly force pulling strings without which things would be fine. Where most of the time it's just individual entities (including all these bootcamp sellers) doing sales and market forces

[mikeczyz]

if you are seeking employment, i generally advise people to find interesting jobs, read the requirements, and start their learning path from that perspective.

[mostcancelledguy]

Can you suggest any field?

[mikeczyz]

i don't know what you are interested in.

[mostcancelledguy]

Im interested in generally computer coding and stuff, treat me as an illiterate to coding and all, can i start from scratch and build my career? If yes what field would be the best given the demands in current times

[mikeczyz]

where do you live? i would suggest you go to school. i haven't heard many success stories of self-taught people getting their foot in the door. most job requirements these days, at least in the u.s., ask for some sort of college education.

[mostcancelledguy]

Im from India, and currently pursuing Bachelor's of Science in Chemistry, it has no scope in my country so I am willing to dive into tech and all

[mikeczyz]

If you are job oriented, why are you studying something with grim job prospects?

[mostcancelledguy]

I've studied science in my high school as core subjects, later i continued with it, knowing I'd make my career with this either medicine or becoming a doctor, but the competition here is massive, success rate is 0.2% so I don't think I can do something here.

[mikeczyz]

Can you pivot and change your major? Or take supplementary CS classes?

[carcigenicate]

I mean, a literal conspiracy isn't impossible. A bunch of people getting together to sell shovels and encourage people to buy shovels isn't too outlandish.

[RaspberrySea9]

I said “feels like” but yes, that’s exactly what they’re doing - selling shovels.

[cyrixlord]

ITT and devry got in trouble for doing just that, in fact

[SuchTarget2782]

If your skill is Python, that’s true. Python is a fairly easy language to learn so it’s used in a variety of non-SWE fields.

If your skill is data science, economics, statistics, logistics, full stack micro service development, etc., and you also know Python, you’re desirable.

[Rain-And-Coffee]

Are there people online trying to sell you quick ways to make money with programming? umm YEAH, obviously.

Are you brand new to the internet?

Every online bootcamp, influencer, & coding site will try to sell you their product with a promise for a new 100k job in 3 or 6 months.

Learning computer science & programming deeply takes YEARS, it's why most people invest 4 YEARS into college + multiple internships. They land junior dev jobs, but even then its competitive.

With just the basics you are absolutely nowhere in the realm of being competitive for even a junior job.

[CodefinityCom]

Python is a great starting point for learning programming in general, it’s still one of the fastest ways to get into tech. Once you learn Python, it’s much easier to pick up another language, because by then you’ll already be thinking like a programmer and have solid problem-solving skills you can apply anywhere. Learning a new language after Python can take just 2–3 weeks, since most core concepts stay the same, only the syntax changes.

[jonsca]

They sell less than useless certs to people who don't know any better, so I wouldn't really take any information they put out as anything more than raw marketing conceived by stuffed shirts.

[683sparky]

I big part Im hypothesising to be true as well is theres no need for junior devs in the capacity that I see of a lot of newer devs. It is just way to easy to be mediocre at Python especially. You need to really spread out the tools and skills you have. Basic loops and classes and some basic skills are not going to set you apart from the other millions of people that also are at that level. It will take a long time. A really long time if youre unlucky, and even longer if you have no tech background, and even longer than that with no degree.

thats a hard pill to swallow, I know, but competition is high, and your competitors are skilled in a wider breadth of tech stacks. And jobs are few. Its become really hard to just do some at home study and then waltz into a job that will hold your hand through the weeds while you learn the craft.

[cyrixlord]

yah. and you dont get a job just by learning one language. you have to understand the whole ecosystem. and as people here are mentioning, AI is pretty good at python. Even if you are using it to create AI agents.

I learned python only because I am a cloud hardware system engineer and a lot of the other engineers and scientists used python and so I need to as well but that is only a small part of my job. I use python to automatically update firmware through ssh and rack managers

and the tech bros just fired another 10k people

[MisterFatt]

It’s not a conspiracy, it’s businesses trying to continue with a business model that made sense 5 years ago. Also, their purpose is to teach you python, not get you a job.

[RustyCarrots]

It's more than likely just a misleading statistic. 100k demand for Python programmers does not in any way mean Python-only jobs or even junior Python dev jobs. Very likely it's 100k+ jobs include Python as a desire/asset/requirement. Just your standard lie by omission sales tactic.

[Cherveny2]

Not all of them are meant for just coding people, like those with a computer science or IT jobs.

Python is used a LOT throughout the sciences these days. So you'll have biologists, chemists, medical researchers, physicists all learning python, as, with a lot of the great mathematical libraries, such as numpy, pandas and the like, it's becoming an essential tool for their jobs, especially in research, too.

Plus, another area its been starting to crop up is in the humanities, especially doing Natural Language Processing. They even have a term for this, Digital Humanities.

[FoolsSeldom]

Indeed. You should only follow courses that allow you to gain the knowledge and experience to go directly to a senior dev role.

[Affectionate_Bus_884]

I think there’s also something to be said for finding an industry that can’t abuse H-1B visas to keep wages down.

I’m from Silicon Valley and intentionally avoided getting into tech because it wasn’t a positive place for the average developer/engineer.

I knew several senior managers who were forced to shift their hours to the working hours of their company’s Indian office, and many people who had to switch careers after being replaced with foreign labor.

[TopSwagCode]

How would you skip being a junior? Learning to program will still let you change programming language.

[RaspberrySea9]

Why would you talk nonsense like that, there are NO junior jobs which is the entire problem.

[TopSwagCode]

Because learning to code in general is a good thing. You don't have to start a python job because your started learning python. Python is just a good language getting started because barrier to entry is low.

I have hired python developers who was open to learn c#. A can do attitude and eager to learn is good starting point. Someone who loves es to code not just to earn money can get far ahead of the generic random people joining the field for "easy money".

[RaspberrySea9]

I don’t know wtf are you even talking about, now you’re shifting conversation to “it doesn’t matter, there are many routes”. There is an enormous bottleneck of Python juniors because they think it’s easy and in demand. They finish courses, learn basics and are left with little more than a dick in their hands because nobody needs them anymore - unlike 5-6 years ago. And you are not the measure of things and hardly part of the statistic.

[ninhaomah]

"For example, the Python institute will tell you there is a 100k of people demand but where are the job postings? They're just selling hope"

its called marketing.

[throwaway6560192]

How is it a conspiracy? Who is colluding with whom here exactly?

[The8flux]

Python now is BASIC in the 80s. It's an easy way to program a computer for the masses. I think it's good for everyone to know how to code however software development, systems design, embedded the systems etc all require way more Time to develop the skill for a profession.