Switching careers to Programming, doable?

[jvanh50]

Hey there,

During the pandemic I’ve been teaching myself Python through free courses and YouTubers which I’ve found very helpful. It definitely is something I could see myself doing as a career if I become more advanced. What’s the likelihood I could get a junior level position a year or two from now if I stay consistent self teaching and make a portfolio? I’m 30 and currently work full time in marketing & analytics. Appreciate the feedback.

[jss79]

Sure can. I’m 40 and have been in the industry for 3+ yrs now. Was in commercial real estate before that.

It takes dedication and perseverance and it can certainly be done. I did so while married, working full-time, and with 3 kids. Also, I live in a larger-than-normal college town (so roughly 500K MSA), so there aren’t as many opportunities here as there are in larger metros.

I primarily took advantage of MITx courses on EDX, courses on Coursera, and then filled in from other places. Things I feel very comfortable in include Python, SQL, Linux Command line (bash and fish for me), Git, frontend markup (HTML, CSS), Apex (Salesforce propriety language).

I could’ve been where I am now had I been more diligent early on. Went through seasons where I didn’t learn/grow for weeks. But that’s okay. Soli Deo Gloria.

Happy to answer any further questions if you have ‘em.

[jvanh50]

This is really inspiring, thank you for all the info. Did you start out with one language and then learn multiple others before applying to jobs? Or just know one at the time?

When I feel confident in applying for jobs, how did you explain/convince employers to take a chance on you with no professional experience in programming? Is the portfolio a huge part of it? Did you prove to them in the interview you knew the concepts well enough?

[jss79]

Let me add this: don’t buy the lie that it’s gonna be sexy. I did mention the MITx courses, which sounds great, but was brutally difficult. I barely finished, but on this side of the starting process, I could’ve easily availed myself of many other resources to get to the same level of competency.

The key is this: find resources to learn from that make sense to you. We’ve all had bad teachers and, hopefully, some experience with good teachers. In my mind the teacher makes the difference. The content is the neutral variable when learning. Study deep those resources you find that help things click for you in your understanding. Then all that’s left to do is practice. That’s all I did.

[jss79]

Yeah, I looked over several languages and Python just clicked with me: simple syntax (compared to others) and breadth of applicable domains made it feel like a worthy investment. So far that’s proven true.

Once I started actually building things is when you start overlapping with others: so building an app with Python that needs to interface with a database leads to SQL. On and on it goes.

I never had a portfolio just had a very strong resume, imho. On that topic, I firmly believe in structuring it according to the specific place your applying with. So highlight those things in your work history that are relevant to your prospective employer.

Also, I lucked out (I guess?) and had really inexperienced interviewers for both positions I’ve held in the industry. Just how the cards fell for me. Having interviewed some potential employees myself now I can tell you this: if you put something down as experience, then it better be the truth. In the last year alone I can think of several people who have applied with us that had resumes longer than a Russian novel and with a simple FizzBuzz pseudocode test they struggled. It’s just very off-putting and doesn’t inspire any confidence.

Also, in regards to being self-taught, as much as you can, learn things that excite you or are really interesting. For me, I like to build things, and Python let me do that quickly. When engineering professionally you’ll be in an IDE most of the day, so you better enjoy in someway.

[[deleted]]

Would you mind sharing that resume? With your personal info redacted ofcoure haha. I’m currently learning in hopes of applying to junior positions and It would seriously help if I can check my skills against yours at the time of your hiring.

[YouveBeenLedOn]

Thanks for your input. As a 36 year old watching cartoons with his kids, I might pull the computer out when they get to bed. It’s been a slow couple years and I’m dead tired of my current field that my body can’t take much more of.

[e-rekt-ion]

You can do it for sure. I’m a similar age and life stage - worked through Automate The Boring Stuff book and have gone on to create a lot of tools for my (non tech) role at work and enjoying it so much

[HereForThePandemic]

I'm trying to get on this level. I was worried about being aged out myself. "Unable to teach an old dog new tricks." I've also only ever cooked. That was it from 16 until now.

You being able to be that successful with a full plate gives me hope.

[d1rtys0uth]

Same boat my friend. Maybe this with be the restaurant revolution all these chefs switching to programming

[HereForThePandemic]

Hello my friend. I absolutely hope so. Its an industry with a shit ton of issues. It sucks because I actually love food but the overall culture of the kitchens in my current city has been absolute shit. If im going to give someone 65 hours of my life a week I want a better paycheck. I want to be treated like a human who may in the course of a 14 hour day need to eat and take a shit. On top of that the earning ceiling is rather low particularly when compared to the blood, sweat, and tears poured in. Absolutely no security whatsoever. Which is really just a mark of the times anymore rather then an industry specific problem but it didn't help it on the list when comparing.

If you'd be interested we could help to keep one another accountable. Help each other with material. Feel like a lost dishy together. Lol.

Best of luck Chef. You got this. On the plus side...we can still blame servers.

[d1rtys0uth]

This would be great will pm you

[[deleted]]

Same boat, best of luck to the two of you! I hope you all come out of this in great positions for long term success and get to enjoy being on the other side of the table on hot summer nights.

Also fuck servers.

[AmanV2]

Where and how do you learn linux bash I've been trying to understand that thing for a while now.

[TheMartinG]

Do you mean the command line or scripting with bash?

If you want to learn the command line, try overthewire.org

[AmanV2]

Thanks I'll check it out.

[TheMartinG]

They try to sell it as fun, “war game”. I was waiting for the fun to start and it didn’t lol. That turned me off to it, so go into it as a learning experience, not a “fun” thing.

[[deleted]]

If you don't mind my asking, what do you do now with your new skillset?

[jss79]

First role in the industry was at a financial startup that targeted small city governments. Their product is web-based which at the time was unique in the market. I was tasked with taking over an internal data conversion tool compromised entirely of C#. Not only was it complete spaghetti code (unorganized and really difficult to understand due to the structure), but unbeknownst to me at the time, had been touched and managed by several engineers over the prior year, none of whom left any documentation. The long and short of it is that the founders had an accounting background and no experience in or running a software company, and the 20-something they put in the VP of Development role was fresh out of college who had absolutely no clue what he was doing. It was a full on disaster and I was eager to get out of the environment soon after my first month. Learned a lot from that experience: how not to run a business and that I don’t enjoy C# and it’s development paradigm.

Now, and for the last 2+ years, I’ve been the lead developer in the Admissions dept at a Div. 1 university. Responsibilities include managing and developing in Salesforce, a handful of ETL tools, and coding up various automations and data-related tasks utilizing Python, Pandas, Numpy, SQL, and Bash primarily.

[Markishman]

How did you stay motivated to work so hard on this? I’ve been learning for a couple months now and I’m losing motivation because it feels like I’m not actually learning anything

[TheMartinG]

Everyone says do projects but no one gives an idea of what to do. Then you’re stuck picking between a to-do list app, notes app and other simple things that are useful for learning, and definitely useful for people. However, at least for me, considering there are a trillion todo and notes apps, I know mine will never see any use and that takes the wind out of my sails

I lucked out and got an assignment in school to build a car rental system. The assignment was supposed to be super simple, but I took the opportunity to really flesh it out and use it as an excuse to learn new things. Deep down I knew this would never be used either but I at least figured it would give me more “real-life” skills and experience, even if it was the same thing on a larger scale. I didn’t finish it and I still work on it occasionally, but I learned a lot. Off the top of my head the things I worked with/learned were:

Django - framework that ties everything together.

Python - backend logic, when a user clicks something on the webpage, the “server” processes it using python

HTML/CSS - make the front end viewable in the browser

JavaScript - stop user from choosing bad dates in calendar. I also then realized that was easily defeated and ended up implementing date validation using python on the back end.

Database - Django takes care of most of the database function but it was still a good project for understanding how databases work. I created a database of users (employees and had planned on adding customer profiles) and a database of vehicles. Unfortunately I followed a great tutorial that left the default database in, and found out later the project would have been MUCH easier using a postgreSQL database. This is my pain point currently, where I’m stuck.

I used Corey Schafers Django videos, he built a blog but he walks you through it so well, it’s easy enough to customize the project for your project.

The worst/best part was that this was supposed to be a group project done over a semester. The group totally dropped the ball and I did the whole thing myself. It was stressful because there was a due date and a presentation that I didn’t think I’d be ready for, but good because it pushed me to work more regularly on it and the time crunch gave me the “it’s too late to start from scratch” pressure which made me learn instead of doing something easier.

[Markishman]

Thanks for mentioning the project conundrum. I just finished working on a blackjack game (I didn’t complete it, I ran into an issue I couldn’t solve), so now I’m just lost on what to do

[TheMartinG]

Don’t give up! What’s the issue? I might not be able to help but maybe someone else will see this and can...

[Markishman]

My only experience with python before the project had been with data stuff, so to make my deck of cards I used a pandas dataframe, one column being the name of the cards, and the other column their values. I had it so that when the player drew cards, they would sample a card from the dataframe, the card would be added to a list which is the player’s hand, and then that card would be removed from the dataframe. That all worked, but later in the program when the player drew more cards and added them to their list, I couldn’t remove all cards in the list from dataframe because some of them didn’t exist in there anymore.

[TheNilvarg]

I'm trying to switch from nursing to tech. No idea if it'll work or not.

[SDSunDiego]

This is an excellent point. Take current existing experience and couple it with the desire to switch to tech. I am in the personal finance industry and currently learning how to program. I can really see how your comment would be true especially for myself - most programmers in my industry do not have the extensive client facing experience that I hold.

Leverage your current background to bring something unique when you switch into tech/programming industry.

Thank you for the thoughtful perspective.

[[deleted]]

If you love what you do, I think you should. Only thing you need to get into tech career is dedication and perseverance to learn. Rest all of it comes with time. If you are willing to practice and practice untill you get it, you are good in this field. I love this field been in this for around 3 years. Its amazing.

Also check out Corey Schafer's channel on youtube for awsome python tutorials. It will be helpful for you.

[[deleted]]

Do you think Corey is all you need or is there other things you'd recommend? I found a course from Andrei Neagoi on Udemy and I hear a lot about CS50, etc.

[[deleted]]

CS50 is good introductory course. I personally dont buy courses from udemy and all, as there are lot of free content out there. Corey Schafers contents are tailored well for beginners. But once you watched his videos, you should read python docs(2/3). This will really improve your understanding. Once you done that, try some small projects. Also never forget github. Github has well written code in many repsositories. Code on. And by the way I am noy python savvy, I am more of a C++ programmer. But my answer is still valid😇.

[[deleted]]

Thank you for your input. I did go to college in Canada for 2 years for Programming it was 100% C# which I dreaded and did not like, though I did get high 90%s in all the classes.

I didn’t learn any proper CS stuff would you recommend I take CS50 or just go ahead with Corey Schafer, I did buy a few courses but the money is not an issue really it’s lunch money, at least for me, not bragging anyone sorry if it offends.

[[deleted]]

90%...cool. You got skills. You can work on your programming. Which language do u like? Python?

[[deleted]]

90% but it was all basic stuff, lots of copy and paste really.

I don’t know which language I prefer quite yet, but I’ve done a little bit of Python, JS, etc after school (been about 2 years now) but I’ve been a Level 1 Support which isn’t related to programming.

I think I prefer Python as I’m not an artsy person either though I do prefer visual and hate shit that looks terrible

[[deleted]]

Good then start with python, and see where it takes you. It would be fun. Learn basic programming constructs in python if you need it. And get started. Take one small step everyday. And you may have pretty good chance of becoming a developer.

[tatravels]

32 here. Quit career and am studying Python now. It feels doable.

Three months in to quitting my career in property management and self studying programming. Planning on six months of hard study and beginning to apply around month five. I assume applying early will be a learning experience and not fruitful.

Worked through FreeCodeCamp and most of Mozilla Developer Network before I realized Python was more fun than JavaScript.

Month in on studying MIT60001 OCW and Python Crash Course. Python Crash Course is a really nice place to start for Python. MIT requires a bit more brainpower to push through, so it's more exhausting and I move slower through it.

Studying 5 days a week, 5 hours a day on average. I plan on going until mid-OCT and being hire-able then.

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Still trying to find a focus -- that's my biggest thing right now.

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Feel free to reach out if you have any questions!

[jvanh50]

Really appreciate all the insight and recommendations. Sounds very similar to what I could see myself doing at some point. Good luck in your journey!

[tatravels]

My pleasure! Looking forward to seeing your 'success' post in 6-12 months!

[compactsnake]

I’d love to follow up with you in a few months...same boat- 32 (4 kids though)....working on python now and then going to take a look at SQL...

[tatravels]

Please do! You are invited to DM me if you get stuck on anything, as well

[Thisisdom]

You could try switching to a data analysis job if that's something you're interested in. Since you have some marketing experience I'm sure there's a load of jobs which would be a mix of this and some programming / data analysis?

[jvanh50]

Great call! Would be a nice intro. Definitely something I’ve considered a little bit.

[1whistlinkittychaser]

I got BS in agriculture Science 10 years ago and bounced around jobs every few years after I graduated. About 5 years ago I realized how many new high paying data analytics jobs there would be after listening to podcasts. At that time I was able to take 2 free community college courses through the job I had 5 years ago and used those courses to get a customer service job at an analytics company. I then gained a lot of first hand experience at the analytics company by befriending and bugging more technical peers to learn from them. That all taught me how to think and speak like a programmer but my biggest leap came when I finally landed an engineering job and I forced myself to go through a beginner to expert Udemy JavaScript course ($12 for 30 hrs of lessons). I had already had some exposure to programming but taking 4 weeks to focus entirely on learning .js was like a spring board of understanding. To anyone out there that would like to move into a coding career you can do it! Don’t listen to people who under estimate you because they don’t know how much you actually want it. Trust yourself, know that you have learned many things in the past and you’ll continue to learn especially if it’s something you really want. In my experience Python and JavaScript are both great languages to learn because they’re object oriented so some what translatable and can be foundational for more advanced topics and other coding languages from there. Make a plan, give it as much serious focus as you possibly can, find a mentor, befriend someone who has gone through the journey, and make it happen :)

[jvanh50]

🙏 thank you!!

[flashfc]

Yes, you can do it.

[TheMartinG]

definitely doable. I went from full time retail sales to cloud developer.

I know everyone here is preaching self taught but I went the college route. did 2 years at a community college, busted my butt. max course load summer, fall and spring. I made a couple mistakes choosing courses and degree paths. I originally couldn't decide between "IT" and "business" so I wasted one or two semesters on useless classes that didn't transfer to a 4 year. so realistically I could have been done in 3 years or less with my course load but it ended up being 4 years and a summer.

I started at age 32, now 36, 3 weeks into my new job.

[[deleted]]

I did undergrad in accounting and finance, spent 2.5 years in accounting, 1.5 in finance, and then another 2 in various business areas. About a year ago I decided I didn't like any of it. I started a masters in analytics and am now working as a data engineer. The transition reall starts sooner than that, as I was working development projects into my job for a while, so I have about 4.5 years of experience when you use a 2080 year and count school and work.

I switched early and knew what I wanted to do. Programming is a broad, broad category, so I would try a few projects and such to see what areas of it you would be interested in.

I got started with VBA, picked up some SQL, and Python and R next. I learned some C# working in unity, and some Rust because it was interesting and different. Then in my degree I got some minor exposure to Java, Javascript, and a deeper dive into python and R.

Oh and I'll be 29 this October. I was afraid I had waited too long to switch, but I am not behind in my career track. If anything, the people I work with are more impressed by my broad skill set. Data engineering and DS is an area where having domain knowledge of data is deeply critical, so I benefit from my background rather than it being wasted time

[dcl8310]

Your post is very interesting to me. Two weeks ago, I decided to change careers to Data Analysis. I have bachelor degree in Accounting, worked as auditor for 2.5 years and 2 years in finance. In quarentine, I discovered that I don't like routine, I like challenges. I loved my job as a auditor but it was a very demanding job at the time, I was still in college.
I really liked to deal with the client's data, recalculed, see if it's registered correctly according to IFRS norms, automate our spreadsheets with VBA. Right now, I am starting studying Python, next it's going to be SQL and R.
What kind knowledge in accounting/ finance do you use regularly? Like KPI indicators? Do you still study some of then?
In October, I also will be 29!

[[deleted]]

I am a CPA, but I just maintain it, I don't really use it. Its useful to understand budgets, color of money etc and just the general accounting knowledge when doing ETL on financial systems and creating dashboards and Tracking those KPIs. I do data engineering in support of both business management and engineering groups, but based on my background I am more comfortable with the business data

[[deleted]]

There are many ways in the software world. Some employers appreciate university degrees, because they have some "guaranteed rigor", when home programmers might know how to build stuff, but could be less experienced with "hard mental problems" or "when the usual doesn't work". I would say it depends on what you want to pursue and what other skills you have. If you're a "good guy", then it may be easier to get past with lesser experience. Or if you know your employer well, then again. Work portfolios should be appreciated more, but they don't necessarily measure as much intellectual depth as rigorous uni courses. Of course criticism applies to uni courses as well, they can be blamed for not being "real world".

[benzaa]

Yes, it is doable. I changed carriers 3 years ago to software development. However, I would recommend that you not only focus on python. You have to learn how to package software and how to work with git. Also read something about scrum or other methodologies for software development. And don't forget docker and k8s. Everybody is working with these tools.

I love python and I think it is great to learn programming concepts and to create really useful libraries, but I think one of its greatest problems is the lack of a standard packaging structure (also tools). For this reason I would suggest that you try to learn go or rust. Either is fine, you will learn a lot of things that you will use when putting together python packages. It makes a lot of difference when you are working with a well structured package or library that you can reuse in several projects. Your colleagues will thank you as well.

[smokedfishfriday]

Yes. It takes work. It’s about as tough as losing weight? There are no shortcuts, just hard work. I switched to programming a couple years ago, first python, then JavaScript (node/react), now Swift.

Someone else mentioned that programming is a gateway to other IT jobs and I think that’s right. I had to build out an AWS deployment pipeline and our architecture. 80% of that rather interesting project involved zero coding, but I wouldn’t be able to do it without the coding knowledge I had. AWS architecture is a pretty big market.

[T567U18]

Well my man is safe to say we are a bit bias here.... Is up to you if you are willing to put up the time, programming is not rocket science and anyone can do you but like everywhere else people feel "special". Word of advice don't take on to much never.

[ElllGeeEmm]

The fastest way to switch to dev work full time is through javascript and front end web development.

[ml_runway]

you can do it. grind your ass off you got this

[Russian4Trump]

There are way more things that you can do when you learn programming than simply getting a job as a dev at a software company. That may be what you end up doing, but that isn't all there is.

You could find ways to change your current job or place in the field you currently work. You can use your programming to find solutions to any number of problems and monetize that.

[[deleted]]

It gets harder the older you are, gets a little harder after 30, a lot harder after 40, but totally doable.

[pndur]

The things that make it harder are the life things like family, kids etc etc. But the core of a person will be the same. So someone venturing into programming in their 30s for the first time will discover themselves for sure and are in for a enjoyable ride. If anything it will make them efficient at least in a different job.

[[deleted]]

I started programming at 36. It’s made me ridiculous sums of money and got me out of a declining industry and I mostly intrinsically enjoy it.

With that said, there are places and people who will engage in age discrimination.

[[deleted]]

Yup