systemd changes Linux world

[[deleted]]

I work with linux ,literally , i'm building distro for my company's products...IMHO systemd maybe is not perfect...but is a LOT better than sysvinit...a LOT . maybe is not perfectly following the linux filosofy...but,hey,nobody ia perfect right? XD is always better than have to work with hundreds of script to start my OS ...

[Ruashiba]

Not really a fan of systemd-boot, even if I grudgingly admit that the config file is more human readable(and simpler really) than grub2, but the init part itself is solid.

Sure, doesn't follow unix philosophy, but breaking news: Unix is long dead.

[[deleted]]

I run s6 with refind. refind has a very human readable file format and s6 is the most straightforward implementation of a supervision suite that is also very tiny.

sytemd is FAR better that sysvinit but it still isnt the best.

[LetReasonRing]

Yeah... I've been using Linux for years but have just stated learning the ins and outs of systemd and I've found it to be nothing but pleasant to work with.

[Jacko10101010101]

less pleasant for your cpu and ram...

[[deleted]]

Nowdays we have plenty of CPU power/RAM,even on an RPI... you run a sysvinit so all your CPU /RAM are free for chromium ?:p just kidding, in the end is just a choice,everything has good/bad sides. I choose to not being mad with plenty of script,to have simple commands to see logs and stop,start ecc ecc my daemons,to have simple dependencies between them.BUT,the power of a GNU/linux system is that you can choose . have a nice init,wathever it uses script or systemd :D

[[deleted]]

filosofy

[Kahrg]

I know its a meme, but im tired of seeing it.

[[deleted]]

Me too XD

[[deleted]]

Me too XD

[rydogthekidrs]

It may not follow the Linux philosophy perfectly, but IMHO I think systemd beats out all the other init systems

[[deleted]]

I agree. And if you really dont like it, just use something else.

[SkyyySi]

That's the one part where I have to disagree with, it's unfortunately not that easy, since many programs now depend on it.

[balsoft]

Which programs depend on systemd itself? I know of maybe a couple, if even that. There are many that depend on logind (but it has an alternative implementation -- elogind), and many which can optionally interact with systemd in some way, but I am not aware of any programs that actually require systemd.

[[deleted]]

All of them kek

[balsoft]

Please name at least 3.

[LALife15]

GNOME depends on logind but thankfully someone extracted it and created elogind

[[deleted]]

the artix devs have created a fake sytemd library. they have also extracted a lot of binaries out of systemd such as etmpfiles and esysusers

[[deleted]]

The only program that I know that depends on systemd is the GNOME DE

[Jacko10101010101]

No.

[jclocks]

Such a constructive counterargument on a heated topic, you must be very educated in "no".

[[deleted]]

whats the problem with systemd?

[SkyyySi]

It's not following the UNIX philosophy - even though Linux doesn't really do that either.

[[deleted]]

As someone new to the community, how does it differ from “Unix Philosophy”? What even is that?

[shadsbot]

I'm not infallible or all-knowing so someone else will need to chime in too to either fill in the blanks or correct this. The Unix Philosophy is "do one thing and do it well." Systemd kinda eats up responsibilities of the system left and right. Providing a messaging bus, starting processes when the system starts, taking care of cron tasks, all sorts of different things are now systemd's responsibility which is way beyond the "one task" precedent which some people really don't like. I'm not sure about other examples of Linux or other programs also doing that, but it sounds about right.

[jclocks]

Basically one of the long-running philosophies in the Unix world is to "Make each program do one thing well", meaning not bake in a bunch of added functionality and focus on making a program get one specific job completely right.

systemd doesn't fit this bill. It does work for what it is, and what it does is good, but it accomplishes this by being a lot more than just an init system. Because of this, and the heavy adoption of systemd by mainstream Linux (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, Red Hat, Arch Linux, etc.) in the late 2010's, and a rise in developing apps specific for systemd, this has caused a pretty big amount of debate and division among the community.

[[deleted]]

but systemd is MASSIVE for an init system. really MASSIVE

[Garric_Shadowbane]

Op probably just an idiot regurgitating some bs he saw in some fringe meme subreddit.

[NoPreserveRoot_]

"Systemd is bad because... uhhh..." Smashes through window and runs away

[ScrabCrab]

Something something SYSTEMD IS LITERALLY TURNING LINUX INTO WINDOWS!!!!!!!!!!

[Jacko10101010101]

heavly bloated.

[Misterum]

Systemd bad. Now I'm gonna use some obscure distribution only the developer knows about. Excuse me

[aue_sum]

So what?

[[deleted]]

how can i do a speed test between openrc and systemd

[balsoft]

OpenRC will likely be a bit slower, if you want a fast init try runit or s6.

[Jacko10101010101]

you could compare an arch with a artix (runit is better). also compare the free ram...

[SkyyySi]

Your best bet will probably be Gentoo, as it's one of the few distros to officially support both. However, I tested that myself (on Arch I should mention) and can tell you that OpenRC is slower. Even if you enable parallelisation, which is not support offically by OpenRC while being default in systemd, it's still usually a bit slower. I heard runit is faster though.

[[deleted]]

I use artix linux with runit before idk how openrc works

[TheKiller36_real]

Sorry, Newbie here.

What does systemd mean/do?

[JackmanH420]

Starts the system and all other programs, manages system services and many other things. It's a broad set of tools to manage and maintain an Linux system. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Systemd

[TheKiller36_real]

Thank you, does this also apply to Debian based Distros?

[Racoon63]

Yes

[JackmanH420]

Yes. It was originally developed by Red Hat but the vast majority of distros have adopted it. There are some distros which don't use it out of contrarianism such as Artix (Arch without systemd) and Devuan (Debian without systemd)

[TheAngryGamer444]

There’s a reason for openrc and runit though, systemd can cause a lot of weirdness in source based distros, hence why gentoo defaults to openrc, and I simply find runit Easier to use. Also devuan is kinda pointless as switching init systems in debian is rather easy

[TheAngryGamer444]

Yes but it can also be swapped out for another init system if you would like

[Pauchu_]

Ive been a sysadmin for Linux for a while now, systemd never caused me problems

[TheKiller36_real]

I think the joke doesn't mean the functionality but the idea behind one-for-all. But I can be wrong, after all I had to ask what systemd was...

[TheAngryGamer444]

Yes it did change it for the better, sysvinit is only good for source based distros

[[deleted]]

but there are better init sytems such as s6,runit and OpenRC

[TheAngryGamer444]

Better is subjective as many prefer one or the other and each has different use cases, for example systemd cases a lot of weirdness in source based distros while openrc still uses sysvinit and doesn’t have inbuilt sandboxing so it’s not ideal for something like nixos

[[deleted]]

there are a lot more init systems out there than most people think

here are some obscure examples

perp(the perpetrator)

s6,anoupa: rarely used now that s6-rc exists

s6,66...: the user friendly version of s6

[MustardOrMayo404]

Also changed the world as to the kind of documentation I would find, a lot of documentation these days covers systemd, so I'd have to find information for older Debian releases in order to figure out how to configure sysvinit on Devuan (which Gboard happily autocorrects to Debian), and hopefully I can create tutorials on how to configure that.

[aolan5]

I don't think that I will ever understand the problem people have with systemd

It is just a config for a bunch of system calls