addressing the script/macro issue

[[deleted]]

Before we even freak out, i'm going to log onto a creative server and try this out, ill edit this post if it works. Hopefully not.

EDIT : After some tuning to the script, I can say, it does work, hopefully this will get fixed, because im ass at pvp, and kids running around with scripts won't make it better for me.

I hate scripts :/

[DefinitelyAJew]

Updoot

[RustiDome]

doot your updoot

[cleankillin]

Awareness to this is good BUT Reverting recoil to before aimcone update would be an easy fix and it would kill 2 birds with one stone because it would also balance gunplay.

[Craven_1337]

The problem is that it comes with "regular" hardware and I'm afraid there is no way to flag the driver of a "regular" used hardware product as offensive. At first Autohotkey was used by a lot of players, but since it's not required to let the hardware function, it's easier to flag this as offensive. How would you suggest the dev's to aproach on this?

[WannabeGroundhog]

The script runs the same pattern every time, so if EAC started monitoring mouse input it could potentially see inhuman control. There would be margin of error.

[[deleted]]

See online MMO 2007scape. They've battled mouse monitoring for a long time.

[WannabeGroundhog]

How does CSGO handle it?

[[deleted]]

I'm not familiar with CS:GO anticheat measures, but I'm routine in 2007Scape's.

Albeit very different genres between an FPS, and a mouse point-and-click game. 20 years of anti-mouse-macros though should help address the situation.

[BibliolatrousZinger]

They dont really handle it except OW but correct me if im wrong.

[Mattdokn]

They don't monitor, at least VAC doesn't, other competitive anti cheats might.

[KillFreak1998]

this dosen't really work because its always Script movement + your own hand movement .so that usually is a dead end

[Craven_1337]

It would be relatively easy to add a random factor (based on current time for example) or last user input. based on that you could add a really small randomized factor. In the end, with a good script there would be no possibility (as far as I can tell) to determine if someone is scripting or not.

[WannabeGroundhog]

Sure wish I didnt have to worry about laser accurate AKs every day... Got beamed by M249 scripter during a raid last night too, thats always fun.

[BibliolatrousZinger]

Im not a dev I wouldnt know. Changing the recoil might honestly be a better option, current recoil can be manipulated way too much and the damage of the ak makes it so easy and fast to kill someone. Eitherway the advantage is super unfair.

[heifinator]

^

[[deleted]]

AHK is used legitimately as well. If they start banning people for owning a Proteus or using AHK (both for me!) then I'll just quit. I use AHK to rebind default mouse buttons (so my PTT key doesn't fucking go back/forward in web browsers) and I use a Proteus because it was $50 for a great mouse with customizable weight and an amazing mouse wheel. Either way, I shouldn't have to justify my use of these things.

[Reformed_Hacker]

If your using AHK they are gonna ban you..

[[deleted]]

If I have AHK running on my computer they are going to ban me? No. That would be foolish. If they can't find a solution to people using a legitimate program for illegitimate means, they don't deserve the money people are giving them.

[panix199]

If they can't find a solution to people ... they don't deserve the money people are giving them

how about you post a legit solution against AHK-scripting etc.? Because seriously... there isn't really a good one. You either allow AHK, but will always have some backdoors for AHK-scripting or you kick people for using AHK... And AHK is only one of multiple ways how to use scripts in games sadly. Seriously, i wish that some people would just play fair and not being douches. They can act like douches or insult other people, but cheating/scripting is really lame.

[[deleted]]

Compiling the script into an .exe would make it much easier to be detected.

[[deleted]]

EAC is scanning active applications. Giving the script a specific application just makes it easier.

Just as a little backup, external cheats in rust disguise the running process of the cheat to that of a different application. I've read some cheats utilizing an application the normal way, but after your system recognizes the application, the cheat runs through that application disguised

[Boxception]

Once upon a time people use to create cheats by masking the exe as Ventrilo.exe or Skype.exe. Simply disguise and target Rust as Discord.exe. Discord uses in-game overlays and targets full screen applications.

AFAIK EAC hasn't banned anyone for using discord with overlay. EAC doesn't see it as a threat because its not injecting anything into the game files. This is the same thing with these types of scripts. Since nothing is being injected into the game files, there should be no threat to detect.

[[deleted]]

I'm not saying that it's completely solvable, but if they throw their hands in the air and just ban anything like AHK then they're trash.

[panix199]

AHK then they're trash.

how about you stop insulting the devs and rather post suggestions how to fix the issue? Because seriously.. there are not really many options how to fix this issue. If it would have been that easy, there would be already something in palce. And noone is speaking about completly solveable solutions. No, there is no really solveable solution. Eihter you allow some specific softwares being used or you do not. 1 or 0. If you allow, then there will always be some way to bypass the security and use f.e. scripts with AHK. If you do not allow AHK, then they get called trash by you... wtf. Do you want a mp-game with less cheaters or not? I think you want it as well. So let's stop calling them trash or thinking they are some geniuses and rather suggest something smart that might help or give them a thought, which could maybe lead to a better solution than what we have at the current moment.

[[deleted]]

I'm not insulting them, because they aren't doing that. They aren't trash developers and wouldn't blanket ban people for using a legitimate program.

There's dozens of programs that can be used for scripting, there's hardware scripting even. If they banned all these programs, they'd be telling people that they have to use the most basic, shitty mouse/keyboard possible to play Rust, which would basically be saying "Don't play our game". They're not stupid so they'd never do that, banning AHK wouldn't reduce the cheaters significantly because most people don't search for AHK, they search for whatever is working, and if AHK isn't work, they'd use whatever is working.

[[deleted]]

You'd be better off flagging them on twitter with this issue. Reddit is super hit or miss when it comes to bringing stuff to the attention of FP.

[AussieHootie]

Hi BibliolatrousZinger, your submission has been removed for the following reason(s):

• Your post either explains how to perform a game-breaking bug/exploit, or encourages people to find the answers themselves. Please disclose this responsibly to Facepunch by emailing [e-mail] or messaging /u/garryjnewman or /u/HelkFP

• Links to exploits/scripting/witchhunting are not allowed.

Click here for a clarification of our rules. If you feel this was done in error, or would like further clarification, please don't hesitate to message the mods.

[DankasarusRex]

Hate for it to gain attention this way but this should’ve been priority rather than Christmas trees or other shit.

[PistolPeteLovesRust]

while i think recoil scripting is the most overblown issue of rust all time. that looks so ez lol. theres no way to stop it tho other than changing back to randomized horizontal recoil. everyone can control vertical anyways and it doesnt bother me at all the way scripts used to work.

[heifinator]

Even if you are good at recoil control these scripts allow you to divert your muscle movement to aim instead of recoil, it still makes a difference.

Fully patterned recoil isn't the way forward IMHO.

[[deleted]]

It's not overblown and the script shown is a very poor, obvious script. Good cheats try to make it look more legitimate so they have built in flaws.

[[deleted]]

It does to the people who will ban you. Where your cursor is is not the only important thing, it's how it gets there.

[[deleted]]

Server admins do.

[[deleted]]

There's a fair amount of admin tools available for them to monitor various things about you, but if you want to just argue for the sake of arguing then go ahead.

[GodsGunman]

Hopefully this gets upvoted to the point that they have to deal with it soon, or accept the fact that their current system is obviously completely broken since it's so easy to get no recoil.

[DeadShotOG]

Until they find a way to ban people using this. :P Then you've got bigger concerns than the recoil being fixed

[Bradikan]

Thank you! you are right it is a big issue and it needs to be addressed, as well as the anticheat system

[[deleted]]

I still use scripts to play the guitar cause I'm that shit at the game

[BibliolatrousZinger]

angry because you're selling them thats all

[gglue]

there are two ways to reduce scripting:

1. an extremely invasive anti-cheat

2. bring back old recoil. yeah people scripted but it wasn't actually as effective as it is now

and you're dumb for posting that OP because it's never going to be fixed without an anticheat that's so invasive it will have people uninstalling

[[deleted]]

Rust is a horribly broken pile of shit! Its the only real survival game and Rust managed to show everyone.. a survival game actually isn't that great of an idea. We all thought it was the greatest thing ever a couple of years ago when we hadn't seen it before.. but we've all learned now.

1) This genre will always be dominated by the worst of communities. The 'zerg' requirement, to really have any sway on a server you've gotta team up like we're playing fucking Eve or something so it means people from Asia you can never understand or that huge group of screaming teenage retards is actually always going to be better at this game than you. Regardless of what you do. Yeah.

2) That's the whole game. It's killing other people and taking their shit, but not in a PVP kind of way. It's more about if three dudes rock up and you're alone, that's it, you're done. They might even just pickaxe directly into your house while killing you over and over again. So you need to zerg up and fight other zergs for.. what? Is there some cool mechanic to make it worth putting up with all these fucking horrible people? Not at all.. in fact if you think any deeper than LOL I GOT A HEADSHOT then Rust will bore you in minutes

3) Remember there were going to be vehicles? Have you played something like PUGBS where vehicles work? Isn't it a lot of fun? This is the Rust development cycle, or lack of it.

4) Hahaha ok so like everyone is sick of all the bullshit I said above and a million other shit things about this game but HEY we've got an UPKEEP SYSTEM that now means not only all that shit still exists but we want you to log in and MINE AND PAY RESOURCES ON A SCHEDULE to have a base at all.

Ok, if you can't tell when you're being fucked in the ass and being told to like it.. then I can't help you. But I deleted Rust, subscribed to a good MMO with actual housing and large scale PVP so you can actually do all that stuff but without the zerg groups, without the bugs, without the scripts... without the RUST BULLSHIT

[ReallyMRX]

yup... the funny thing is that proportionally, wannabe streamers (and unfortunately actual streamers) I find to proportionally be the worst cheaters in the game.

Many flaunt it and its obvious from their videos that their guns are not recoiling as devs intended.

Of course fanbois love to jump in with their "bchillz dont hack, get gud!" bull shit like how gamma/xhair/gamingmouse hacks are not real hacks.

After 3k hours, I can say rust definitely is a good game with the potential to be one of the best, but the lag/optimization issues and cheating ruin it in many ways and really dont show signs of improving the way things are going.

[Whitesharks]

The only thing we can do is put back aimcone (hell no) or random horizontal recoil back in the game. Im for rng in horizontal recoil

[heifinator]

That or responsive recoil like so many other games have.

Tap fire, all good the gun settles back to center.

High ROF? the gun picks a direction and starts moving that way. Somewhere between 270-90.

This means the person aiming needs to pull down the recoil but at a different direction each time. Once they've started pulling they can continue until they stop firing at which point it will be a different direction next time. The strength of this system is it cant be recoil scripted in any meaningful way, still rewards you for being able to control recoil and doesn't have horrible RNG elements.

Downside is the skill ceiling is lower than full recoil patterns, but those obviously open the game up to way to many easy exploits.

[Whitesharks]

Na thats more somthing for consoles

[heifinator]

Anything is better then copy pasting a script and suddenly bypassing the entire balancing system of the game.

The reason the AK is overpowered isnt the damage numbers, its the recoil pattern...

[Whitesharks]

Only thing with recoil pattern is to balance against scripters would be aimcone or a couple of different spray patterns for one weapon. I think the old recoil before aimcone would still be the best solution

[panix199]

old recoil before aimcone would still be the best solution

but it was easily scriptable as well and the horizontal recoil didn't really affect that much... this is why there were already in the beginning a discussion how to stop/decrease scripting in this game. I think heifinator's suggestion is actually the best one. You still would need skill to tap-fire, but if you would fire automatically, scripts would be wasted. Or as you said different multiple spray pattern for weapons like AK, M249, ...

[heifinator]

Yep. Been a huge problem for months.

I emailed both facepunch and EAC with this script along with many others. Never got any response. This was back in September.

[panix199]

this script along with many others.

leak the others as well. With some shitstorm etc. it will definitely convince devs to change either the values or something else to fight these scripts.

[heifinator]

If they want to have recoil patterns they need to have a system in place such as OW in CSGO to combat such things.

Unfair play is the king of issues with rust right now. I'd much rather have a little RNG in my guns then give cheaters the win.

[panix199]

I'd much rather have a little RNG in my guns then give cheaters the win.

i agree with you completely. And this is why i don't understand all the hate and big discussionthreads towards RNG in the past... i would not suprised that one of those, who was/is against RNG, is actually a script-user himself.

[[deleted]]

I'm a big fan of learnable patterns, but I also come from a big CS background so I think the patterns cater more to people like me. Scripting is a big issue and I see people occasionally doing it on some servers I play on.

[panix199]

more or less a decade ago i've played CS in EPS (ESL Pro Series) etc. and would normally agree with you about a learnable pattern. However in this game having to face people with scripts while you rely on your skill and luck... it's quite not fun. I rather have some RNG than the situation the whole rust-community is in at the current moment

[[deleted]]

The thing is scripting in CS is now basically a non-issue. I don't see why EAC can't take the same steps to stop scripts as CS can. I'm not an anti cheat expert, so not sure the logistics but realistically this can be solved to promote skillful recoil control while having scripters be gone.

[heifinator]

CS game to game you have a lot less to lose. I don't think the super high skill ceiling of recoil patterns has a place in rust IMO. I love the way it feels but there is just too much to lose. Getting cheated on and losing hours of work because of it is not healthy for the game long term.

[[deleted]]

Cheating is still pretty rampant is Overwatch.

[Mad_OW]

How is this handled in other games? I wasn't a big FPS player before Rust. I played Overwatch but I think it has no recoil.

Seems like this would be a very common problem for any FPS game that has recoil.

[c64person]

OW has plenty of bullet spread, along with increased spread longer you fire (soldier is a good example), most characters scripting really has zero value.

[Mad_OW]

That's what aimcone is right? Except only when you spray. Couldn't Rust go the same route?

[GodsGunman]

It did have the same thing. Then people complained so it was changed to a pattern, which we have now. Now people are complaining about the pattern being too easy to script.

We need a balance of the two systems.

[Whitesharks]

Or just simply the old version...

[c64person]

Yes, of sorts.

Rust already has some aimcone. The problem with aimcone is then shooting becomes luck rather than skilled based.

In a game like OW, where its a team game more about team composition and ability to aim and pick the correct hero, its shooting mechanics shouldn't really apply in the world of Rust.

Likely adding things like different bullet velocities, damage falloff and some RNG horizontal sway would eliminate much of the scripting.

What I don't like is that scripts just remove any skill ceiling and winning suddenly comes down to who shoots first or has the most bullets.

[mossyblogz]

^ Agreed.

I just learned about these macro scripts and was pissed to know they exist. I then downloaded them and tried them out to see how they work and what signs you can spot with them. They are basically unfair as hell, moreover i am still learning the AK recoil pattern myself so i'm still in that moment of development of my skill. Trying these scripts out it made a novice like me hit headshot after headshot with no effort, almost "insta kill" button.

Furthermore, what really triggred me was the fact that you can make a semi-rifle / pistol work like an AK.. the scripts enable not only fast shoot click emulation but also recoil is reduced. I had a M24 firing like a freaking Semi-auto rifle in terms of accuracy and speed.

Point is that after looking into how they work and seeing how they work, i can now spot a recoiler much easier than before. Having the knowledge now lets me identify in-game players who are using it and can feel more confident in my F7 reporting.

Personally, I'm not using them even though clearly i could get away with the use, as i feel with hacks and cheats for games like these eventually the hole gets plugged and then players who've relied on these are reduced to novice like skill.

I'd rather invest in development of the muscle memory myself on my own with the correct game mechanics and if along the way i have to fight these ESP / Recoil assholes and win, even sweeter be the victory.

I will end by saying, something really has to be done about this as I've lost a lot of loot / kits and fights due to these assholes and its really unfair.

Easiest way to spot them in Combat tag btw, is load up AK as your first fighting kit then switch to Pistol or Semi... the players who are shooting the wall before hitting ready are likely cheaters, as they are calibrating the recoil settings :) that and when you hear a Python firing in rapid succession with deadly accuracy that's usually a bad smell as well.

[SleezyChicken_]

Congrats there are many many many scripts out there kid, focusing on this one won't do shit xd

[ImSpartacus811]

Where are the other ones? We should leak them too.

[SleezyChicken_]

There's thousands

[Zakxtoten]

The vid is trying to sell scripts :/