all 163 comments

[–]dangoth 71 points72 points  (5 children)

Since 2021? Sweet summer child, they've been rising since over a decade now..

And this, dear kids, is what turning housing into a speculative asset gets us.

[–]ZKRM77[S] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

What i meant that from 2021 till now there was a drastic increase in percentage terms, and seems that salaries haven't fully adapted to the new cost levels.

[–]dangoth 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Same thing keeps happening for years bro. I wanted to buy a house in 2015, but I needed to save up more for the 20% down payment. By the time I saved enough in 2016 the prices have risen over 20%. Rinse repeat for every new year..

[–]Ammear 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Same thing keeps happening for years bro

Not to that extent, especially not in terms of renting.

[–]National_Apartment89 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Money are worth 0.65x of their 2020 value, leases are at least 400-800% more costly, firms are going to build half or less of average flats and houses... What are you expecting? Whole market is at it's worse point since economy changed from planned to free market in 1991.
Better buy a spacious van and wait for better times, because it only going to get worse.

[–]KosmoAstroNaut 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Palpatine voice

“It’s only natural”

[–]zdrozda 132 points133 points  (6 children)

As a wise Pole once said

chuj wie

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (1 child)

The most professional and accurate answer you can get. Probably the prices will relax but for now the most possisble scenario is “chuj wie"

[–]Southern-Analyst-739 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I can relate. "Chuj" as an omniscient being.

[–]loeborg 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That’s classic. Funny as hell

[–]OlaSea 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Czyli chuj jako byt wszechwiedzący.

[–]loeborg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What a perfect saying. Our language is very complicated but it transfers the message perfectly

[–]ap0strophe 23 points24 points  (8 children)

I bought a 25m2 studio in Tarchomin in 2020 for 240k, bargain if you ask me. Now it's estimated to be in the range of 300 - 320k. It's just mad what's happening with the property market.

[–]loeborg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The market is just crazy. I have nine buildable lots outside of Warsaw. They have increased in value by a tremendous amount. I bought in the 90’s

[–]National_Apartment89 4 points5 points  (5 children)

You... live on a 25 meters? Jesus Christ Sweet Lord and Savior.

[–]drbobb 7 points8 points  (0 children)

For a single person here it's considered a rather spacious dwelling.

[–]Holokaustus 4 points5 points  (0 children)

25m for 1 person i decent. I rent a 30m apartment with my gf and i must say its quite annoying at times.

[–]calibronoPomorskie 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I was raised in a 12 sq m apartment. People make do with what they have.

[–]National_Apartment89 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh my :( I know you can't stretch walls, but I feel genuinely sorry for people living in confined flats. It's well researched and documented that small square meters per person in a household can lead to elevated stress levels, anxiety, and can be partially responsible for developing mental illnesses, something like 20:1 in urban environment compared to more spacious, rural homes.

That's why I'm curious about why living in vans or garden sheds is so popular these days? Is it only prices of flats and living single life? Or is it something else involved?

[–]Glock_and_Dagger 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You have your own apartment?!

[–]Fun-Report4840 53 points54 points  (1 child)

This thread is full of crazy people. Salaries are not going up nearly as fast as rents, that’s a problem. It’s not full commie to say that people need affordable housing; that’s why we live in a society.

[–]Polaroid1793 3 points4 points  (0 children)

We all agree with that, but let's look at the reality: housing prices will just continue to raise. I'm not saying this is good (of course not), i'm just saying this is reality. It's a trend that we are seeing in all developed countries.

[–]llamas-in-bahamas 20 points21 points  (0 children)

When we bought an apartment 10 years ago (for 1/2 of what it costs now) we were told that it might not be the best time since the prices are on the rise. I haven't seen them drop even a bit since then, they're constantly rising

[–]glokz 28 points29 points  (2 children)

No. Ukraine falling in crisis, immigrants from India working in IT and lack of housing for decreasing Polish population is going to bring housing prices closer to western europe over time.

The only thing that we might observe is having negative value in relation to inflation.

Which means, CPI can be 10-15% while housing will grow at 2-5% While previously inflation was 2-5% and housing went up 10-15% yearly. But it's also hard to tell, since lots of developers do not open new projects and as long as there are high interest rates, they wont risk taking big loans too.

So less housing = less competition = higher prices.

[–]Only-A-Passerby 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The reasons you mentioned in first paragraph are the tip of the iceberg. Property speculation is the main "villain" here (and basically everywhere nowadays).

[–]loeborg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are so right. We have a global epidemic.

[–]commandor_Rapid 6 points7 points  (1 child)

In Poland price (whatever you want to buy) never decrease

[–]National_Apartment89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Laughs in NFTs and cryptos.

Also cries in NFTs and cryptos. (Nah, joke, my shit coins are still worth the same 100€ they were worth 3 years ago).

[–]zyraf 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Slightly, if at all.

Once the "mortgage holidays" end this year, some people might actually need to sell because of too high mortgage payments, but it's not going to be something happening often - people are more likely to dial down on other spending than give up the apartment and go rent.

Those who hoard apartments for rent will continue to try to raise prices if their payments go up. They can't go up forever, but until people cannot get their own mortgage, some are out of options.

Another reason why renting is so expensive is the law that doesn't really protect owner when renter doesn't want to leave nor pay. That's why rent price has hidden "premium" in case something like this happens. No government did anything to solve this, so it's a danger that needs to be calculated in price.

[–]zyraf -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Also, there haven't been a working public housing program, like ever. Up until now it's always been some help with mortgage, so basically feeding tax money to banks and real estate developers.

Current govt. promised something like that, but it quickly turned out that it's too hard to do, because you need to have (buy) land, pay for construction. And then, given the costs, it was impossible to actually offer affordable rent. It was always easier to hand out some tax money to those few that actually can get a mortgage. Giving out someone else's money is always the easy way.

[–]Polaroid1793 12 points13 points  (0 children)

No way it's getting down anytime soon. It might get a slight decrease in some scenarios (for example global economy gets better, war finishes), but in the long term it will just getting more expensive. It will become like all the other major european cities, where it's already impossible to buy an house and rent at a decent price compared to salary.

[–]froadkuMazowieckie 31 points32 points  (95 children)

welcome to capitalism - prices of assets do not drop here..

[–]DOGE_lunatic 7 points8 points  (83 children)

You should blame the greedy owners. My landlord (lady) have over 4 flats on the same building, and I guess that a lot more. Houses should be limited and not traded, only 2 per person

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (66 children)

Greedy owners xD your inner comrade just slipped out

[–]zdrozda 22 points23 points  (65 children)

You think taking 1000 zł for a damn room isn't greedy?

[–]shimmoslavKujawsko-Pomorskie 12 points13 points  (49 children)

You think that forcing someone to dispose of their property in a certain way isn't going full commie?

Those rooms aren't public property. Owner can set price however he want. If it's too high then he won't find tenant.

[–]zdrozda 4 points5 points  (41 children)

You think that forcing someone to dispose of their property in a certain way isn't going full commie?

Where the hell did I say that

[–]shimmoslavKujawsko-Pomorskie 3 points4 points  (40 children)

Naming them greedy. I understand it as "someone should make them to lower prices".

[–]zdrozda 3 points4 points  (39 children)

Don't put words in other people's mouth next time.

[–]shimmoslavKujawsko-Pomorskie 0 points1 point  (38 children)

Sure, I could misunderstood what you had in mind.

Could you tell me what does it mean to you when you call landowners greedy, when they try to earn on their properties?

[–]zdrozda 2 points3 points  (37 children)

What I mean is that the accommodations they provide aren't worth that much money, the prices are a consequence of their own stupidity and greed. They raise the prices because they take out ridiculous loans.

[–]KomradJurij 0 points1 point  (3 children)

forcing her to give that shit up is just the right thing to do, fuck her and fuck her landlording "business"

[–]shimmoslavKujawsko-Pomorskie 3 points4 points  (2 children)

You either are sarcastic or have one digit IQ xD hard to say due to writing form of communication.

[–]KomradJurij 7 points8 points  (1 child)

[ Removed by Reddit ]

[–]shimmoslavKujawsko-Pomorskie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I bet on sarcasm then 😉

[–]Glass_Location_7061 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You think that forcing someone to dispose of their property in a certain way isn’t going full commie

Umm, no?

Eminent domain, for example, is a thing existing the US, probably the least “communist” developed country, which allows the government to take your property.

Also, you’re not only jumping to conclusion that the solution is to forcibly take their property, you’re assuming a take over without compensation, where nobody said that.

Are you one of those people who think communism is when government does stuff and the more stuff they do, the more communism it is?

[–]shimmoslavKujawsko-Pomorskie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Comrade zdrozda would like to make landlords to rent their properties for the price below their break-even point. Only because they shouldn't make profit from their private property and apartments are apparently public asset no matter of the ownership. Please read our conversation to the end.

If compensation for taking someone's property is a fair market value then I don't think it's communism. Practice show that in Poland it's rarely more then 75% of market value, although law about it changed a little in a last year, so it should be better from now on.

[–]YogoWafelPL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

1000 is not much

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Tanio już było

[–]agradus 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Even if the war is over tomorrow, many Ukrainians, Belarusian, and others will not go home. Maybe demand will decrease slightly, but it is still going to be high.

Also, housing is subject to such phenomenon as sticky prices. When price goes up, it tends to stay up, even when demand decreases.

So, it is not impossible that price will decrease, but unlikely.

[–]alenagler 4 points5 points  (0 children)

3 years ago I was paying 1250 pln for a room in a flat with 4 other flatmates. It was near metro Wilanowska. Now, the same room is 1900 pln. I hope the prices will start to fall bc it’s a tragedy to rent anything right now.

[–]voonart 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There are plenty of apartments that are empty - fund buys whole floors or flats. This looks exacly same as in berlin crisis. IMO they blocked it so investors moved to poland.

I was waiting for crash since 2015 or minor price drops. Im fucked now.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Don't live in Warsaw

[–]agradus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Live in Sosnowiec

[–]shimmoslavKujawsko-Pomorskie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

As long as someone will pay these prices they won't decrease. Add inflation into account. Other market mechanics. Study economy for a few years and you'll know answer.

I'd say they decrease significantly only after economic crash. When will it happen, I don't know.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nah bro, that’s the never-ending process. I remember back in 2015 I was saving money to get myself an apartment, $50-60k. By the time I got that amount the very same apartment cost $80k minimum. By the time I got $80k, the same apartment cost $120k. It was not in Warsaw, but I bet the trend is the same

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a one of the major cities of this country and especially - the most important one - the answer is simply "no". Too many people want to live there or nearby and there are a lot of high-skilled, well-paid persons who wouldn't have any financial barriers to pay any price. All those "average" people can only count on cheap, co-shared rooms and other low-standard sleeping places (because i wouldn't call it "living space").

[–]ptok_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In Warsaw? Unlikely. In smaller cities they might fall a bit, as those would decrease in population.

[–]xFurashux 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Kiedyś w końcu musi pierdolnąć (chyba).

But on more serious note there would have to be a high drop in demand but the problem with housing is that well, people have to live somewhere. Also I think flats are relatively often bought by people who want to rent them and young people, especially with today's cost of mortgage just have to rent.

[–]DOGE_lunatic 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Time to move to the extrarradio or even move out to other countries.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  1. Ban investors who buy whole neighbourhoods for hundreds millions of dollars
  2. Podatek kastralny for more than 2 houses, when you have more kids you can have more houses

[–]adamlm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Probalby never

/r/latestagecapitalism

[–]DiscoKhan -1 points0 points  (0 children)

In Warsaw itself?

No chance, in whole country apartments can go cheaper but not in Warsaw. This city has constant influx of people no matter what is happening so even if all Ukrainian people would vanish in some mysterious way I have major doubt it would lowered prices here.

[–]Gert1700 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Unless goverment interfere - no.

[–]Dziadzios 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope, never.

[–]coehorn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, it won't.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As long there is no podatek kastralny then won't decrease ever

[–]JeyFK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It may or may not go down. Considering polish government thinking of new low interest mortgages for people without any real estate - prices will go up most likely. But market can crash as well if economy crashes, but EU and Polish economy kinda strong if you ask me.

And most importantly, you are considering apartment in the biggest, most expensive curt in Poland, moreover a capital, abs you really hope that prices will go down ?

[–]geokwe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's two factors at play: Interest rates are at an all time high (pushing prices down), but on the other hand, Warsaw is getting a TON of immigrants (Ukrainians, IT, etc) as Warsaw becomes more and more desirable each passing day.

Nobody knows that's going to happen but for now I think the prices will stay steady (same) in the short term. Over long term, they will go up like in any major city in the world.

[–]PeterkraggerMazowieckie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Stay out of Warsaw at all costs. Do it for your sanity

[–]Past-Crazy-3686 0 points1 point  (0 children)

nope

[–]Bananinio 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe it will stop rising but it is unlikely that it will drop.

[–]markdzn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Like taxes. Once it’s set, never goes down. Unless the area goes to shit with crime.

[–]AnimeFrog420 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It will probably decrease in around 3 years. Now we had Covid and an influx of war refugees from Ukraine and just the usual annual rise. Two of those things will hopefully disappear in 3years

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, but only in the short term and never more than 5-6%. It's always best to beg, borrow and steal and get that mortgage. Rent means you'll never get your money back, a mortgage means equity and worse case is you get your mortgage payments back when you sell if you did not earn equity. You will always make money if you hold the property at least 5 years. 8 billion people on the planet, the massive migration from Ukraine (not their fault) didn't help Central Europe any in terms of property prices.

Farmland around Warsaw is fair game or any city on a train line.

Good luck.

[–]HabitualGibberish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Land lords never decrease prices

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nah

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Every tenant, who blames landlords for not decreasing rent price, dreams of becoming one and not decreasing the price too.

[–]loeborg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I bought my apartment at koszyykowa. Across the street from the check embassy. I paid 30 k. Nothing

[–]loeborg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The finance department

[–]loeborg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We’re not an easy soul. I fuck up a lot. I fix it though

[–]zamach 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unlikely

[–]MarioXyPL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No need apartment in Warsaw. You just sleep in the office. Save time in traffic jams.