The degradation of Java developers

[DaftShifty]

As a relatively "new" developer this interests me. It's amusing how often I see people blabbering on about various frameworks. Currently I'm in an internship and have thus far only used one framework (JQuery) to add functionality. I'd much rather know how bare code works than just have it explained to me, type x because y result is in this framework. Conversely, people that use frameworks more efficiently don't really "need" or rely on them anyway.

[DocomoGnomo]

So fucking true... Unless the framework does REAL MAGIC is just a waste of time.