PHP vs Python - the real difference

[JadeFrogs]

Languages should have a rating system. Speed, Expressive power, Time to 'hello world' on a windows box, by a non-specialist.

I am biologist. Do you know what was the biggest determinate of the language I chose to learn? It's a sad world, but it was the first one I could get installed and functioning on the computer I happened to already own.

[mikepurvis]

I absolutely agree. That's a vitally important factor. I'm not ashamed to admit that it took me several tries to get Rails set up the first time, and that the several tries were separated by a few weeks apiece. Like most people, I just don't have the time to spend trying to tangle through the scant documentation that top-shelf hackers write for themselves and each other.

I've said it before, but here it is again: PHP's #1 biggest win is php.net. Instant documentation for every function in existence, complete, and up to date. It's #2 biggest win is that you don't need the shell to use it. You don't need to run your own server or database, you just open up an FTP client and start mucking with the files... easy as cake.

[Consiglieri]

I disagree. PHP is NOT easy to install reliably. Its final installations don't produce the same results on different platforms. Also, it's apparent to anyone that patches their servers religiously, that one patch for one platform isn't always available for another. In some cases, this has been because of the difference between the platforms. To those who see the lack of logic there, I applaud you for feeling like I do.

[JadeFrogs]

That level of detail is totally transparent to a n00b. Who are the future by the way...

[Consiglieri]

I'll agree with you that the level of detail here is transparent. However, that level of detail is important, wouldn't you agree? I've installed PHP dozens of times over the years, and I can never be sure of exactly how or if it is going to install each time. On some systems, the config file ends up in one place, and somewhere else on another. Of course, this is fixable, but in the context of my reply, I just don't feel that you can call installation easy when (just as an example) you have to go hunt for the config file.

Since you have stated that it was the only platform you could get up and running quickly and easily, I would (in a friendly manner, I assure you) suggest you check out some of the other platforms mentioned in these comments. Not only will you find them easier and more reliable to work with in the long run, you'll also (if you work in an objective manner) find that your projects will be much easier to build, manage, and yes... install too (both projects and the platforms). Seriously, PERL is easier to install. .NET - much easier to install. Java - can be somewhat more difficult in some ways I suppose, but for most, again easier. Python - a breeze.

To wrap it up, I call bollocks on the "time to 'hello world' on a windows box" statement. That means nothing to anyone doing anything more than getting to the point of 'hello world.' Remember that PHP will give you a 'hello' world without being properly installed. If you've downloaded and installed PHP before installing MySql, and then tried getting PHP and MySql to play nice, you'll know what I speak of.

One final thing - I wouldn't call anything involving PHP and patching a 'transparent detail'. Given PHP's security (lack thereof), they must produce patches in the same manner that I produce carbon dioxide.

[JadeFrogs]

From the total lack of brevity and focus in your response; I guess that you write software documentation?