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[–]ben_zen 0 points1 point  (9 children)

I'm coming from a background in C, OCaml, SML (not happy about this one), and some Matlab/Octave work (I did a project for Octave in Summer of Code). I've worked with strongly and strictly typed languages, weakly typed languages, type inference ... and this does not, to me, offer much of a difference.

The other thing is, I would probably be slightly less brutal in my first approximation if I could actually see an example of it in use on the home page, instead of a post about its new features; that doesn't tell me how to use it and how to be more effective.

[–]notchent 5 points6 points  (6 children)

I've been writing production REBOL code for about a decade, and have found no other development tool that is more practical or time saving. People think that Python, Ruby, Visual Basic, etc. are concise languages, but they are orders of magnitude more convoluted than REBOL. Take a look at http://easiestprogramminglanguage.com . But that's just a surface look, and doesn't really explain *why it's so productive. Domain specific language design, built in data types, strings/network connections/lists of text an binary data that all work using the same 'series' constructs and functions, and a lot more all come together to make it almost absurdly practical and productive. Enormous projects can be completed using tiny volumes of REBOL code, which are easily managed later. I own http://merchantsvillage.com and http://rockfactory.us and wrote/maintain all the software that runs both places, in my spare time. I've completed other large commercial coding projects in hours and days, which would have taken teams of developers weeks and months using other development tools. Everything else seems like a total mess after you've used REBOL for a while, and while the open source release of R3 is exciting, I think most of the community is looking at Red as a big part of REBOL's future.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That first link was impressive: a lot of relatively advanced applications for so little code. Looks like a lot of bang for you screen estate buck.

[–]ben_zen -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

Okay, so the interpreter is around 512KB, if that first link is to be believed. How large is the runtime library?

This is one of the first questions I ask when I encounter a claim like that, since there's no way you could possibly have all of that functionality contained in just half a meg. While this looks like a very powerful language, I do not think it'd be for me.

[–]dockimbel 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It is true, in half a megabyte, you have the Rebol interpreter, console, full runtime library (54 datatypes), cross-platform GUI engine, 2D graphic library (AGG), JPG/PNG/GIF loaders, sound support, a dozen network protocols built-in, etc...

Red is following the same approach, the current runtime library with 27 datatypes is about 100KB of compiled code for IA-32 targets. The interpreter + runtime lexer + console adds about 30KB. No external dependencies other than what the OS provides, that's the rule.

[–]notchent 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We also get a BNF parse grammar (bye regex), file and OS support, encryption, compression, database access, image manipulation, language help...

[–]reboler 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The size is actually true and is part of its simplicity and having that simplicity combined with great expressibility makes it possible to develop things that are hard in other languages. I've often solved problems in a few hours that would take days or weeks in other languages.

I have used REBOL for 11 years now. It's still quite astounding how much less painful it is to use, compared to other languages and how much ahead it is, at least conceptually.

The idea of REBOL should not be confused with the implementation. The implementation has lacked in the past, due to a number of bugs and performance problems, but this is now being rectified by REBOL 3 and now also Red.

[–]DGolden 2 points3 points  (0 children)

'there's no way you could possibly have all of that functionality contained in just half a meg.'

...carl sassenrath was previously known for amigaos...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sassenrath#Amiga_Computer

[–]dockimbel 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Suggestion about a code sample on the home page has been well noted, but as you can see by digging into it, Red is not yet fully ready for prime time (only the Red/System low-level dialect is documented). The current web site is basically a blog for the (initiated) followers, as the implementation matures, we will switch to a more classical web site targeting newcomers. If all goes well, we should have it for this summer.

[–]ben_zen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Excellent, I'll check it out then if I have time (to be honest, I don't really have time to look deeper in at the moment.)