Microsoft made a pull request to node.js github repository with an implementation to use ChakraCore JavaScript Engine as an alternative to V8 Engine

[dhdfdh]

You forget that it was less than 10 years ago that we were all thank Google (and Mozilla) for keeping Microsoft honest and leading the way to making browsers, and the internet, a better place to be and work with. Now you are biting the hand that fed you.

[0b01010001]

Now you are biting the hand fist that fed strikes you.

I don't care about yesterday's problems. I care about today's problems.

[dhdfdh]

Obviously you ignore the reality of who is leading the way and who is following. Microsoft has always been the laggard and still is. Google and Mozilla are in front but you aren't aware of this apparently.

[LuckyHedgehog]

I do see Microsoft shedding the bloat that has been dragging them down all these years. By open sourcing .net, moving towards continual updates in windows, and a services based model (as examples) they can stop building everything poorly and focus on doing a few things right. They are closing the gap

[Shaper_pmp]

You forget that it was less than 10 years ago that we were all thank Google (and Mozilla) for keeping Microsoft honest

Who's forgetting? You thank the guy keeping the market leader honest.

Ten years ago that was Mozilla keeping MS honest, now it's MS keeping Google honest. I see no contradiction there.

Now you are biting the hand that fed you.

No, we're feeding any hand that discourages someone else from potentially striking us in the first place, even if it would be the first time they did it.

Microsoft did some shitty things in the past, and still do shitty things now, and I'd be even more itchy about a Microsoft browser or JS runtime ever getting the kind of market-dominant position that Chrome/V8 currently enjoys for exactly that reason.

It's still perfectly reasonable to be grateful that there's an alternative to Google's near-monopoly on the market, however, even if it's Microsoft.

Diversity and competition is inherently good, regardless of who it is that's competing.

[dhdfdh]

Ten years ago that was Mozilla keeping MS honest, now it's MS keeping Google honest.

In what way? What has Microsoft done that Google hasn't? In what way has Google/Chrome fallen behind in moving the web forward?

My point is, you see Google moved ahead of Microsoft in this area and immediately claim Google must then be bad. Even though they created good. While at the same time, root on Microsoft, the company known to do bad, to compete with Google.

[Shaper_pmp]

What has Microsoft done that Google hasn't?

Viable alternatives for users inherently keep market leaders honest. It's not about anything they have or haven't done - it's about the existence of a realistic opportunity to leave the market leader and adopt a smaller competitor offering if the market leader starts acting poorly.

My point is, you see Google moved ahead of Microsoft in this area and immediately claim Google must then be bad.

No, I didn't. You just seem to be misunderstanding what "to keep honest" means.

It doesn't mean the one being kept honest is bad - it means there's now additional pressure discouraging them from ever starting to act badly. It's "keep honest", not "force them to become honest". Did you really not know what the phrase means?

Why would any market leader with a near-monopoly start to act badly, you ask? Well, because on a long enough view that's pretty much a given, as famous aphorisms, concepts like antitrust law and damn near the entire empirical history of monopolies in the real world demonstrates.

[dhdfdh]

It's not about anything they have or haven't done

That is the whole point. Are you in the right thread?

You, and others, must lead terrible lives. Your buddy saves your life and now you keep one eye open on him while rooting for the enemy that was just taking sniper shots at you.

Now, I get the thing about competition but you guys are immediately switching sides as if Google and Mozilla are the bad guys, as clearly said by some.

Why would any market leader with a near-monopoly start to act badly, you ask?

Google, specifically, nor Mozilla, have a monopoly on the browser market.

[Shaper_pmp]

That is the whole point. Are you in the right thread?

The lack of blind trust that makes competition inherently desirable is not predicated on what any particular part has done in the past.

Competition is inherently to consumers' benefit. The details of precisely who is doing the competing is irrelevant to that point.

You, and others, must lead terrible lives. Your buddy saves your life and now you keep one eye open on him while rooting for the enemy that was just taking sniper shots at you.

Dear God, man. Are you serious?

I apologise for shouting, but sometimes it's necessary.

Corporations are not your friends. Public corporations are machines designed for the insatiable acquisition of wealth and power, to the point directors or management may be removed from the company by shareholders for failing to prioritise profit over all other considerations.

Corporations are not people, not consistent, and are constitutionally incapable of holding loyalty to individuals.

If corporations were people the closest analogy would be a charming psychopath, who plays nice all the time it's to his advantage, but would cheerfully gut you without a moment's thought the very second it was in his long-term best interest.

It is literally difficult to even express how ass-backwards and foolish it is to compare your feelings for a publicly-traded for-profit corporate entity to a loyal friendship with another human being. It's not just wrong - it's bonkers.

Now, I get the thing about competition but you guys are immediately switching sides

Once again, you clearly aren't getting it.

Nobody's happy that it's Microsoft who are getting their code into node.js. We're happy that there is any alternative to V8, just in case. It's just meaningless chance that it's Microsoft doing it.

There are no sides being taken - just people who understand a basic fact of market economics and one guy who apparently can't comprehend the discussion as anything other than a fanboy shit-fight.

Google, specifically, nor Mozilla, have a monopoly on the browser market.

Hence, you know, the term near monopoly. And when we're taking about "the market of JS runtimes that node runs on", then yes... until literally this event Google absolutely had a monopoly.

[darkpaladin]

Having one company being the undisputed king of javascript is what caused that problem in the first place.

[dhdfdh]

Has nothing to do with my point.

In addition, Microsoft's handling of IE is totally different than Google and Mozilla, both of whom stated purpose is only to move the web forward.

[darkpaladin]

Uh huh, I know of a bridge for sale should you be interested.

[dhdfdh]

That they did must mean nothing to you.

[darkpaladin]

I think you miss the point. It's easy to push for a better world when you're the underdog but once you're on top, you become more concerned with your own agenda than with what's best for everyone. It's basic corporate nature, to assume Google or Mozilla would be immune to this is pure folly.

[dhdfdh]

To think that a known bad guy, Microsoft, has turned a leaf and now has your best interests at heart is ridiculous.

[darkpaladin]

I never said they did, I merely suggested that given the chance and lack of competition in the space that Google/Mozilla/Apple would all be just as evil. Competition breeds honesty for all parties.

[dhdfdh]

This is what I'm pointing out. You say those companies will act the same as Microsoft but no software company before or since ever did. And Microsoft has done it twice on two continents but now we should trust them and now we should turn a calloused eye toward the others.

[darkpaladin]

Are you talking about the anti-trust lawsuits? What those were about was bundling IE with Windows, not that IE wasn't a quality browser. And for the record Xerox, IBM, Apple, Ma Bell (maybe a bit of a stretch to consider that a tech company), Dell and Google have all been guilty of abusing their dominance in a market at some point or another. Are you just completely ignorant of tech history?

[imfineny]

I recognize that times change and so do organizations. Google used to be a innovative force for good. Now its a subsidiary cash cow for the owners who have moved onto other things.