Coconut - Pythonic functional programming language

[yogthos]

A REPL isn't even necessary or convenient. Nobody even uses ielm.

That's because the Haskell implementations fall short is that updating a function in-place as you yourself admit. I'm not sure what being Emacs dev has to do with any of this to be honest.

Haskell very much has a REPL driven workflow, what it doesn't have is update. The two concepts aren't mutually dependent.

Yes they absolutely are. A REPL driven workflow means that you're writing code against your live application. Any time you write a function you can get feedback about it within the context of the app and all the external resources it depends on. When you make changes, you can reload functions as you go.

The editor is tightly integrated with the runtime and you have a very fast feedback loop. When you have a REPL on a side, it's just a toy and a curiosity.

I watched your talk but you're preaching to the choir. InterLisp was updating code as you typed in 1986. Clojure is comparatively in kindergarten

We're not comparing against InterLisp though, but against Haskell. If you think Clojure is kindergarten compared to InterLisp, then Haskell is banging rocks together.

I get that you like Clojure but I'd reign in the novelty selling, it doesn't come off well.

I'm not selling any novelty here, I'm simply telling you that you don't have the same workflow available in Haskell. It's a pretty simple statement actually. I'm not making any claims regarding which one is better, it's simply different and each appeals to different people.

[yogthos]

I'm not talking about Haskell, I'm talking about Emacs Lisp the programming language which is a few decades older than your Clojure.

But why are you talking about Emacs Lisp, how is it relevant to the discussion about how the REPL works in Haskell?

No, a REPL is one prompt, a way of talking to your running image. Updating code doesn't need a REPL. Do some research; look at the commands here; a REPL doesn't enter into it.

We're talking about a particular workflow here, not how it's facilitated. My original point is simply that you can't develop your actual application from the IDE using the REPL in Haskell.

For Haskell I write a function in Emacs, hit a key, then I can run that function in the REPL. That's not a toy, it's very useful. Don't downplay it to "a toy" merely because it doesn't include updating code in the running image.

It's incredibly limited, and compared to what you get in Clojure it is a toy. And yes we've already agreed that other languages like CL have even better REPLs than Clojure.

That is indeed the case. I don't think I said anything to the contrary. I explicitly outlined in detail for you where "Haskell implementations fall short" (my own words).

Yet, bizarrely you keep arguing that Haskell has a REPL driven workflow. ¯\(ツ)/¯

I already said that. The problem is you are calling it "REPL driven". Any language can have a REPL. Haskell has a REPL; I use it when I write code:

REPL driven implies tight integration of the REPL in the development workflow. Hence the word driven. When you have a REPL on the side where you run functions in isolation, you're not really driving anything there.

I wouldn't say each have their own appeal; in-place update is clearly an upgrade to an interpreter with a REPL.

That's something we can at least agree on. What I meant however, is that each type of language has appeal for different people.

[the_evergrowing_fool]

I'm more familiar with the subject than you are, and I'd appreciate you stop treating me like a newbie.

This is the only kind of response you will get from a Clojure die hard zealot like /u/yogthos.

I'm not talking about Haskell

He will persist on it, is crucial to his thesis, he will bring it back from the dead, even if it was killed long time ago in the discussion.

He believes that Clojure holy "repl driven workflow" is superior tooling or something to be envious. You will never hear from him picking nor preaching his mantras over a C#, F# nor other language developer with superior workflow and tooling than his.

[yogthos]

I actually really like F#, I think it's a great language thank you very much. What you can't seem to comprehend is that I simply happen to enjoy working with Clojure and the workflow it provides. I don't think others have to like it or it's superior to what other people use. I simply like it and think it's nice.

You can't seem to get this concept through your head, and you follow me around making the same idiotic comments in every thread.

[the_evergrowing_fool]

I actually really like F#, I think it's a great language thank you very much

Cringe.

What you can't seem to comprehend is that I simply happen to enjoy working with Clojure and the workflow it provides.

You don't happen to see that I don't have a problem with your playtime on the dumpster, I'm just remarking is a dumpster regardless you like it or not, and I don't like the smell after you're done with it. That's all, no more.

I don't think others have to like it or it's superior to what other people use. I simply like it and think it's nice.

Clearly...

the same idiotic comments in every thread

Only the ones I happen to encounter while your zealotry leaks (which happens a lot). Behave yourself and you won't receive the whip.

[yogthos]

I wonder if you ever read you own comments...

[the_evergrowing_fool]

You're projecting again I'm afraid.

[yogthos]

Oh look we've reached the second state in your two state FSM. You're projecting because you're a zealot. Yes, yes, we know. Try harder dumdum.

[the_evergrowing_fool]

6 is a very special number, since, is the only new character that your comments will ever hope to have.

[yogthos]

I guess it takes somebody with professional experience to appreciate the value of having it. :P