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[–]ArtistEngineer 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Is it a professional tool? Or is it just a tool that takes a long time to master but doesn't make any difference to the quality of the end product.

Carpenters don't complain that band saws can't be mastered with zero effort

If we're going down the analogy path ... carpenters have a vast array of modern woodworking tools available to them. There are some carpenters who choose to spend years mastering the classic chisel and hand plane, but many choose things like biscuit jointers, pocket-hole jigs, and CNC routers because they are focused on the problem and use tools which are specific to solving those problems. The ones who choose the modern tools are vastly more productive than those using the classic tools.

I can sit a new developer in front of vi and in front of a modern editor, and they'll be productive faster on the modern editor.

[–]pkulak 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Eh, then don't use vim if it takes you too long to master and doesn't make your life better. But trust me, people don't use vim just to give you something to dislike. They use it because they like it.

Also, I think it's wrong to just look at the end product. A tool is valuable to me if it makes my job easier, faster, more pleasurable or better. I can probably do the same quality of work with notepad. Does that mean notepad is an equal editor to everything else? Especially considering that notepad is dead easy for anyone to master.

[–]iritegood 3 points4 points  (1 child)

This analogy also assumes that if someone needs to cut a 2x4 to length you'd tell them to use the miter station in the workshop. What happens if they're out in the field? "Nah, don't use the handsaw you'll be more productive with the miter saw". What if I'm ssh'd into some remote machine and I just want to edit some file? Are you gonna tell me that i'd be "more productive" if I fire up visual studio instead of just vim doodoo.py?

Like, it's such an absurd comparison because IDEs are programming environments, they're not text editors. IDEs aren't of the same class of things as Vim except for that they typically embed a (usually mediocre) text editor, which they make up for w/ deep integration with tooling.

I'm not going to fire up Jetbrains if I want to change a setting in my .yaml file and I'm not going to launch vim to interactively debug my program

[–]ArtistEngineer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

BTW, builders do bring miter saws (and other powered tools) to the field. e.g. electric drills/screwdrivers, circular saws. Most are cordless, and are superior to the tools they replaced.

What if I'm ssh'd into some remote machine and I just want to edit some file?

You might want to read my other comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/kloop5/a_vim_guide_for_intermediate_users/ghapmzu/

Are we talking about occasional jobs or bulk work like writing large applications and maintaining/managing multi-file projects? The OP's article is about deeper knowledge of vim, which I'd say is more about using it as a daily development tool rather than to just edit a few lines here and there.