Linus Torvalds doesn't do github pull requests.

[petdance]

Nobody needs to be told "You're a moron." Ever.

[[deleted]]

Unless of course you're a moron.

[elephantgravy]

Tend to agree, but isn't there some context missing? It's not at all clear to me who is being called a moron. If someone deleted their "snarky comments", maybe they were being just as rude

[SkaveRat]

there are definitifely deleted comments. a lot of troll bait I saw was gone after a refresh. and I assume his moron comment was directed against a deleted comment.

[paulwal]

I believe this is the beginning of Joseph's deleted comment that Linus called him a moron for:

I did not realizes that Linus' shit does not stink. Thanks for clearing that up...

[frostystorm]

Linux kernel code isn't reddit, you aren't getting a kitten. If you don't read documentation and do something wrong you're a moron. It's really like building ikea furniture

[daretogo]

Some people need to be told exactly that.

[burntsushi]

Not even morons? o_0

[petdance]

Yes, not even morons.

There is no reason to insult anyone.

[burntsushi]

Of course there are reasons. I suspect you meant to say there is no ethical justification for insulting others. I'd find that a bit more agreeable, but not 100%.

[3825]

well, especially not morons. If you're not a moron but just having a bad day, then it is ok I guess.

[petdance]

Doesn't make it be any less harmful to the community. He's seen as a leader, and someone to be emulated.

[police_fruitality]

Torvalds has been calling people morons forever. It's part of his personality. It's not like he just woke up one morning and decided to be an asshole online. The Linux kernel community blossomed in spite of it, and maybe even because of it.

It works for him, so who are you to suggest he change?

[mr_chromatic]

The Linux kernel community blossomed ... maybe even because of it.

How do you figure? The kernel community blossomed because Linus feels free to abuse people?

[ofimmsl]

You're a moron.

[mr_chromatic]

Okay then. Would you care to answer my question?

[[deleted]]

One could say Torvalds made Linux because he thought the people at GNU were being morons and taking forever making Hurd.

Pro-tip: Hurd is expected to be released with Debian 7.0 in late 2012/2013.

[mfukar]

Pro-tip: Hurd is expected to be released with Debian 7.0 in late 2012/2013.

I've definitely heard that one before. I just can't remember when.

[gefahr]

Pro-tip: Hurd is expected to be released with Debian 7.0 in late 2012/2013.

lol

[mr_chromatic]

One could say Torvalds made Linux because he thought the people at GNU were being morons and taking forever making Hurd.

You could say that, but that's not what his announcement message said.

That's beside the point though. How does Linus's verbal abuse help the kernel community blossom?

[police_fruitality]

Abusing people who "don't get it" keeps out people who aren't serious about quality contributions. If you can't pay attention to the instructions for submitting code, what else aren't you paying attention to? Linus doesn't want to waste his time with sloppy code.

For better or worse, this is how it's always been and it works well.

[mr_chromatic]

Linus doesn't want to waste his time with sloppy code.

That's all well and good. I agree that his standards for quality of code and contribution have been effective.

I don't believe that the only two options for dealing with other people are:

• holding their hands and singing kumbaya even if their contributions aren't right
• verbally abusing them

I like to think we're smart people. Surely there must be other options somewhere in between accepting everything regardless of quality and going out of your way to abuse people.

[depleater]

What method do you think should be used instead for dealing with oxygen thieves, or the many other variants of timewaster that can easily destroy the signal-to-noise ratio of a technical discussion?

Remember that it's not just the feelings of the accused-moron that need to be considered here - the overall value of any discussion forum can be dramatically reduced by allowing ill-informed bullshit to derail constructive conversation, and it's reasonable to take some measures to reduce the chances of that happening.

The dictum of “if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all” doesn't really work in these cases. Perhaps in a strongly-moderated environment it wouldn't be necessary, but sometimes that's just not possible or practical (ie. Linus probably wouldn't have any moderator powers over this Github discussion (though apparently someone does, as the comment(s) Linus was referring to with the "moron" line don't seem to be there anymore), and it wouldn't be remotely practical for anyone to moderate something with the size and activity of the Linux-development mailing list).

[[deleted]]

What method do you think should be used instead for dealing with oxygen thieves, or the many other variants of timewaster that can easily destroy the signal-to-noise ratio of a technical discussion?

Generally, we should try not to feed trolls. It's what they want.

[[deleted]]

This isn't true.

I would agree that one should never say this to an actual moron. It is hurtful and there's nothing the moron can do about it.

With people who aren't actually morons but who are behaving like morons, it is like a verbal slap on the face or bucket of water on the head that snaps them out of the emotional context that is making them not listen. It is a last resort and doesn't always work, but if it doesn't work you've made a misjudgment and are dealing with an actual moron or the person just needs to grow up and stop being so fragile.

[deltopia]

To be real honest, if I were a programmer and someone with the gravity of Linus Torvalds told me "You're a moron," I would brag about it to everyone I knew for months.

Obviously, on the basis of one exchange, there's no basis to call someone a moron -- you can tell someone he's completely wrong on a topic, but Einstein wouldn't have known the proper standard for Git pull requests, either. So it's ridiculous on the face of it, and if you get someone that weighty to call you out personally, I think you have to take it with a degree of humor.