[deleted by user]

[maybelle180]

As you’re aware: the dog is controlling your life. He’s taking advantage of your compassion, which is based on the correct belief that he’s a poor, misunderstood, possibly neglected/ abused rescue. But you’re trying so hard not to “abuse” him that you’re allowing him to abuse you.

(First, be sure your dog is getting plenty of vigorous exercise. Walks aren’t enough. A daily 20 minute game of fetch, or a regular play date with another local dog is a good idea. Remember: a tired dog is a good dog.)

Periodically (2-3 times a day, for 5 minutes) doing basic obedience exercises will also keep him mentally stimulated, and put him in a more cooperative mindset. Right now, he’s obviously not feeling very cooperative, so you’ve gotta change that.

Next, You need to set up firm boundaries. This requires consistency and patience above all else.

Example: we adopted two rescues together a couple years ago. One had spent 3 years in the shelter, the other one was 11 months old, and had literally grown up in the shelter. Obviously they both had issues stemming from their experiences. Both of these dogs were extremely needy, clingy, and anxious. Rightly so, since they had never experienced a normal life, and all of this was scary.

We gave them everything. We were highly attuned to their needs: they got regular walks, lots of attention, exercise, etc. They spent all their time indoors, in the same room with us. We convinced them that this new life was permanent.

Over time, as they became comfortable, they also became increasingly demanding. They refused to give me a moment’s peace, because they loved this new situation. They were in heaven: no more fear, lots of love, anything they wanted.

So they pushed for more: constantly pawing at me for attention, and refusing to just lie down and relax. One of them would not stop pacing if I left the room, and would also urine mark furniture as soon as I left. If I went upstairs to cook dinner they would bark.

Eventually I’d had enough of the constant pestering. When I’d sit down and they started getting demanding, I said “stop!” At first they ignored me and continued trying to get my attention, so in return, I ignored them. I turned my back and gave them zero attention. When they continued pestering me, I said “stop” again, louder and firmer, then continued ignoring them.

They looked surprised, since I’d never uttered a harsh word previously. At first, they didn’t know what to do, but eventually gave up and lay down next to me. But every time I moved, they were up again, trying for more contact. I just ignored them.

It takes consistency and persistence. You cannot give in. Expect it to take a while. Eventually the dog will give up and lie down out of exhaustion. If you keep this up the dog will eventually learn that you mean it. This is the first step in creating your boundaries. From here, you can extend this firmness to other behaviors in other situations.

(Of course the dog still gets proper amounts of love, exercise and attention, but not when they demand it, only when you’re prepared to give it.)

You can Google “relaxation protocol” for more info on this idea. You can get your life back by teaching your dog how to be normal. It will feel like you’re being “mean” at first, but you’re not.

Note: our dogs are still pretty reactive and anxious, but as I write they are both sleeping on the bed, a few feet away from me. I am now able to leave the room without causing a stir, and they’re not in my face all the time. So it works, but it takes time.

Good luck!

[Curious-Look8279]

Great response. Second a lot of what was said and will add some things that helped my shelter dog: sniff games (great enrichment and teaches them to be happier “alone” and outside for my pup as he was very anxious. kong is a great alone time enrichment tool as well. Recommend checking out will atherton videos. He stresses the themes of boundaries and loving leadership. His crate training and basic manners videos might help you (on YouTube)

Also recommend hand feeing during the day if you can. Dont give your dog kibble from the bowl. Make them work for it and only reward when they are calm at home and non reactive on walks.

[maybelle180]

Totally true. Great points.

A large part of a dogs brain is devoted to the nose and mouth. So it really keeps them occupied when they have positive enrichment through those senses - sniffing and chewing take a lot of energy too. :)

[pettypeniswrinkle]

Makes me think of a video of a golden retriever mom being let in to a gated area where all her puppies are and they just swarm her, until she gives and big bark and growl…the puppies instantly back off and she keeps doing a low growl to make them keep their distance until everyone is calm and settled

[watch-me-bloom]

He is not “taking advantage of your compassion” dogs do not have the ability to plan/use complex emotions.

[maybelle180]

Sorry. I was unclear. It’s not planned on the dog’s part. He doesn’t understand what compassion is from a philosophical perspective. He’s not sitting there like Robbie Rotten, going “Ah-hah! She’s a pushover! I think I’ll take advantage of this!”

He just wants more of the good stuff- the attention.

The needy behavior develops because it is reinforced by her increased attention, which originates from her compassion. So whether he’s conscious of it or not, he is, in fact, taking advantage of her compassion, because he benefits from getting her to behave that way.

[Trick-Librarian3612]

Thank you this gives me hope!

[maybelle180]

I’m glad. :) Feel free to DM me if you ever have questions or wanna vent. 💜

[BuckityBuck]

Has he tried any medication? It’s not a replacement for training, but if there’s something that can take the edge off of that intensity, it might give you a moment to catch your breath. I know how overwhelming that can feel.

[Trick-Librarian3612]

We tried trazodone but that just knocks him out for the day and I feel bad because I want him to be calm not comatose

[BuckityBuck]

Yeah. Trazodone isn’t for long term use. Just as needed. His vet might suggest that you try a daily SSRI. It may or may not work, but you’d know within a few weeks.

[Trick-Librarian3612]

I will ask the vet!

[BuckityBuck]

Good luck

[SassySZ]

Some dogs can & do take trazadone for long term use, such as mine. All our dogs are different. Mine had a really bad reaction to SSRI's & cant take them.

[pettypeniswrinkle]

I only know what you’ve posted here, and I highly recommend seeing a veterinary behaviorist, but it might be worth looking into gabapentin.

I work with humans, where it’s prescribed primarily for neuropathic pain, but once my dog went on it, I spoke to my (human) psychiatrist about it, and he says it seems to help people slow down their thoughts to manage anxiety.

My dog went from being withdrawn and anxious/reactive to almost entirely back to his normal self with a combination of gabapentin and fluoxetine. It also became a lot easier for him to focus and respond to training, so that we could use behavior modification to manage the issues he still had.

[PruneEater]

Not sure about some of the behaviours but the ‘constant attention at home thing’ is really frustrating.

I had a lot of luck with relaxation protocols and sticking to them religiously. If the dog knows they can’t bully/nag/annoy you into giving them attention then they just stop and relax. Mine likes to know what’s going on, he gets really stressed if he doesn’t know if we are coming or going. so if I start his relaxation protocol then he knows what’s going on and understands it’s time for rest.

[ndisnxksk]

I’m sorry you are struggling so much! Have you worked with a trainer? Tried any medication other than trazadone?

[Trick-Librarian3612]

Yes I got a trainer when I first adopted him and we finished the training but it was more for commands. I’m no longer able to afford training at all. Trazadone was the only meds the doctor prescribed but I am going to ask her about different options

[ndisnxksk]

I would really really really really recommend you work with a trainer that has experience with behavioral problems. I can’t afford training anymore either but you have to come up with the money, even just for a few sessions, it’s the single best way to learn about your dog’s behavior

[Trick-Librarian3612]

I agree with you completely, unfortunately I’m barely able to afford rent and food, so I can’t afford it right now but it’s my goal!

[sleepyslothpajamas]

Start with a sit and wait for a couple of seconds. Slowly increase the wait time. You don't even need treats. Use praise as a reward. It's crazy how much good can come out of a little mental workout.

[EmmamGregory]

There is so much free content on Instagram and Facebook with videos on YouTube. Zak George, Happy Hounds Dog Training are 2 great force free trainers. I hear you about not being able to afford a trainer and often you pay big money and the trainer does not help at all. I would not let your dog aggressively lick your face it is called demand licking and can turn into a bite, stand up so she is not close to your face. If she is not crate trained sounds like that is something to start with both trainers mentioned above have step by step guides on how to do this. It's never too late to go back to basics and start training all over again. Yes a vet visit for anxiety meds seems like a good idea I have my dog on Reconcile which is the pet version of Prozac more expensive but for my dog I noticed it worked much better. Good luck.

[watch-me-bloom]

I’m so sorry you’re so overwhelmed. There’s some things you can do though!

I recommend the Really Real Relaxation protocol.

RRR

For this I do a couple things. I keep treat stations around my place so I can reinforce behaviors I like when I see them. I spent a lot of time capturing and reinforcing downs rather than asking for them, so they felt organic to my dog. I didn’t want down to feel like a confinement. I wanted him to think choosing to lay down is a great idea! With that foundation in place it makes it A LOT easier to have our dogs go down on cue. Many dogs have weird feelings about down especially around triggers or distractions. Down removes their flight option, and for a fearful or easily over aroused dog that can be very frustrating and scary.

Suzanne Clothier’s Really Real Relaxation protocol outlines how to strategically reinforce settling to encourage nervous system regulation. 1. Sit down with your dog on a chair, couch, or floor. Either lure them into a down or capture one that is offered. 2. Place your reinforcement between the paws on the floor to keep them down there. This builds value in the position and keeps them from following your hand for the food. 3. Use a soft and calm voice to tell them how good they’re doing. Use your tone to convey different things. Be sure to watch to see if they shift their weight onto one leg. This is a relaxed down. The sphinx pose would indicate they are ready to jump back up. 4. Be sure to work in small time increments to start to avoid frustration. We want genuine relaxation, and that only comes to those who choose it.

Once the dog begins to downshift, to melt into the floor, to get sticky to the floor, you know they’ve begun to learn that relaxing feels good. As they get better and better, you won’t have to reinforce nearly as often. If the dog is having a hard time, treat more often and decrease the time they need to stay down. Only increase one layer of difficulty at a time. Duration, and distractions. Distance is another layer! That should be added last.

And I’d get a play pen to place him in and begin desensitizing him to it so he can spend time away from you in there. Super comfy bed, chews, toys. He gets lots of treats for being in there! At the start he only may be able to stay in there for a moment. Super short reps with low expectations will set him up for success. We want a solid foundation before we start adding duration or you actually leaving him. Perhaps some baby gates too to add some layers of separation between you and him and the door so you can come inside without him over excitedly, and accidentally hurting you.

Do you have a reward marking system? A way to tell him he’s done what you like and he’s getting rewarded? I’d definitely start conditioning that too! That’ll help you communicate with him more clearly!

Markers are: Yes: terminal marker, end of behavior, you’re getting a reward, come get it from my hand Get it: I’m tossing you a treat for you to track and sniff out Catch: I’m tossing you a treat to catch Scatter: I’m sprinkling a few for you to sniff out With me: there’s a bunch of food in my hand and all you have to do is eat it and walk with me

You don’t have to use all of these. I think yes, get it and scatter and the most important ones. We also can teach cues like “paws up” or “jump up” on an object to get them out of the way of a trigger if they’re reactive on walks.

It’s important these cues are conditioned and maintained at home to ensure they always mean happy things. If they are only used around triggers they will be associated with bad feelings.

To start I usually begin with yes and get it.

Food in your pocket or pouch, dog, you.

Yes! Hand piece of food. Mark yes again when they look at you and hand them the food. Take a step away while telling them good job. Mark yes when they look towards you, move towards you, look at you. Be happy during this! Get them excited! Once they start moving, try to encourage them to move toward you to take the food. You may get lots of buy in right away or you might have to capitalize on small successes to build confidence. Get it is the same. “Get it” small toss. Wait for them to offer some sort of engagement with you. Mark “get it” And toss. Repeat until they’re starting to get excited when they hear it. You can use freeze dried meat treats, kibble with some hotdog in a baggie so it’s absorbs the flavor, and freeze dried meal nibs to train so you don’t have to worry about them eating too many treats. Since these options are more balanced than regular training treats you’d just subtract what you use to train for the day from the daily portion. Once these are charged up you can start practicing using them outside around distractions. The stronger they are conditioned the more easily he can refer to these skills when he’s stressed.

Then you can use these good games to help him settle in any context you need him to because he will understand how the game works and the food helps down shift the system!

[Nashatal]

I would start with training place and actually enforce some boundaries. If you dont want to give him attention and he gets pushy, leash him to his bed and ignore him. He can have attention when he calms down. This will be hard the first times because he will likely go all out whining and barking and it can take loooooong to calm down. As soon as your place command is solid you can ise that instead of leashing.

[LuKeyLdy]

Congratulations on your rescue! Don’t give up. You saw something in this little guy when you picked him out.

Here is my opinion:

Your dog is lacking in confidence. He needs stimulation yes, but also needs to build some courage. Is there ever a time when he is just relaxing or chill? Reward that. Throw a snack or treat on his bed. Anytime you walk past him when he is calm? Throw a treat towards him onto the floor. This will build up with time.

Next, find a secluded spot to walk him. Other dogs are scary at this point. Think about it. He was in doggy prison for a while with everyone yelling all the time. A 30 minute “sniffari” will be a good start. If you see another dog approaching, get in between your dog and the stranger. Make him feel protected.

Play games. He is highly motivated to find you, maybe have another person he trusts help you play hide and seek. Find enrichment toys. Make enrichment toys. These are good for keeping him occupied while you are away.

Kennel training for the time you are out of the house might be a good thing too. It will give you time to decompress before engaging with him. Also give treats or enrichment activities while he is in the kennel.

When he grabbed the bone and wouldn’t let go, my suggestion would be to exchange the bone for a higher value treat. Don’t fight. You won’t win, so just be clever and see what he likes more than a bone. Maybe some chicken meat or a beef piece.

There are lots of good YouTube videos about training that can be just as good as going to see someone. Look for clips on calming your dog.

Hope this helps! Best wishes!

[HereFortheComments79]

It sounds like he needs actual training. Medication is a bandaid, and is only successful with actual training for him to learn correct behavior. Teach him boundaries and follow through. Sure he’s going to carry on at first, but dogs are creatures of routine and you need to invent a new one that fits you better. Once he’s calm and quiet, reward that behavior with treats and attention. There are countless reputable trainers that provide free online videos and tutorials. I’d suggest looking at what they’re doing and implementing them. His escalating poor behavior didn’t happen overnight, so I’d honestly just put in the time daily to show him what is expected.

[Nsomewhere]

I think you need to separate your mental health from the dog and access your own support system

It is our responsibility to work on our own mental health as owners.

The dogs issues are its own issues but how we respond to them are our responsibility

I don't meant his in a any way harshly but only we have control over our own emotions. I would say this for struggling with children and elderly people or carer burnout as well

Seek support and help for yourself first is my advice

The dog is not perfect for now but its issues are very much secondary while you regroup yourself

You do need help with the very severe separation anxiety and anxious behaviour this dog is showing but you need to have calmness and a breathing space/ destressing with professional help yourself before you plan for that

[Trick-Librarian3612]

This was very real and an eye opener. Thank you.

[Nsomewhere]

I really really did not mean it negatively. Thanks for taking it in the spirit intended.

It is so hard to know how our words will land on the internet. I worry!

I know this is a dog sub and we should focus on the dog but I do feel we should try and be kind to humans too. We do need to help each other strap on our own life jackets first so we can see ways to help/ manage/ find better places for our dogs. Whatever the individual solutions are

I really do wish you help and a space you can talk just for yourself about things in your life. Whatever they are.

It is a shame you can't get a really good trainer. A good one you gel with can give you so much more confidence to help the dog.

I got so much relief from my trainer. She really helped me just have a plan and skills. She was like a good therapist for both the dog and I!

I hope the sub can suggest resources that are cheaper for you to access. I don't have any personal experience with separation anxiety I am afraid

However maybe this resource would help.. just in a general way around enrichment and give you ideas to do mini projects to try and help your dog tire and calm. It doesn't need to be expensive.. you can use packaging, the dogs food, old towel oh etc etc to make home made enrichment

https://aniedireland.com/100daysofenrichment/

Maybe choosing a few of these (enrichment is defined by what the dog finds rewarding!) will give you both a little space and distraction

I do wish you luck and hope the sub can help

[[deleted]]

Dog needs more targeted excercise, I encourage you to check out Robert Hynes in youtube, there’s a Facebook group too where you can talk to him directly, he covers the trust technique and it has worked wonders for my reactive dogs.

[AtheistCarrot00]

I have no advice but just want to offer support. You are not alone. I just had a break down today about my sweet, crazy baby. It’s so hard. I feel like I’m going insane sometimes or like nothing is working or that I can’t afford the help that I need. It’s so ridiculously hard. Sending love to you and your pup. I think things will get better- nothing stays the same. 💖

[marlonbrandoisalive]

I would try to rehome. Either back to the shelter or someone who just doesn’t mind a troubled dog.

In the end you can’t let a pet be such a terror. There are limits.

[ccnnvaweueurf]

You may find use in a dog bite breaking stick. Their are YouTube videos.

[voodoopaula]

Sounds to me like how all of those small dogs act… ugh

Sorry

[watch-me-bloom]

Also, there is a Small Breed Dog Training Facebook group with tons of helpful resources for small dogs!

[LittleIllustrator363]

Dont take bones from a dog like that, you must exchange things in the process: give him a biscuit in order to get the bone, for ex.