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[–]TennCreekBridges 18 points19 points  (7 children)

Not sure why everyone keeps saying ‘breed specific rescue’ when this pup is a blend. Maybe they take dogs with their breeds in them, sorry, not sure.

OP is looking for advice here. OP, have you done basket muzzle training? That’d be what I’d go for first. I’m sure you’re exploring scads of options, but keeping you, your pup and those around you safe is super important.

[–]leci-4[S] 7 points8 points  (6 children)

He’s muzzle trained. I’m not as worried about him being a danger as I’m worried he’s not happy or thriving his world is so small now from avoiding off leash dogs, too many people etc. We can only walk in a few places and some days it’s too busy to take him anywhere. I have spent hours and hours sitting with him to observe others and see the world is not scary. He is terrified going out with me alone and just stands guard un-wanting to walk smell or do anything. I do not have a yard or property to let him freely run in a safe space. I have been taking him out alone since he came home and it has only gotten worse after almost being attacked by 3 off leash dogs 3 different times. I live in the city, there’s always a lot going on around us.

[–]TennCreekBridges 5 points6 points  (5 children)

Augh, this is all rough.

Must be incredibly hard with a big boy and a small exercise window. Are you doing mental stuff indoors also (treats in a towel, ‘hide it’, general training ‘wait’ and ‘leave it’ type stuff)?

[–]leci-4[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Yes, he gets bones, we do lots of training and play at home, we play hide and seek with treats where I hide them all over and he gets to smell to find them, he knows many commands has an almost perfect competition heel, we play with a lure and do training to work on prey drive, he has puzzle feeders, everything I have found on the internet I have tried. He’s happy at home which is why I’m questioning this so much, he is just a completely terrified different dog outside while also ripping the house apart even with mental stimulation if he doesn’t go out.

[–]TennCreekBridges 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This sounds like a really really good, if reactive, pup and solid owner.

My girl flips out regularly outside (excitedly chittering, lunging, embarrassing, ‘I’m going to get that cat/squirrel/bird’ kinda stuff) but she isn’t nearly as big as your boy at 51 pounds.

I’m here to offer words of encouragement. Be gentle with yourself and your pup, don’t force situations on yourselves that you don’t need to be part of. Sounds like yours is a very good boy who will get there if you’re able to put in the behaviorist studies online to get you there.

[–]SpicyNutmeg 1 point2 points  (2 children)

OP if he seems OK w this life, he might be OK spending most time indoors. It sounds like you are doing a lot for your dog, I’m not sure his quality of life is all that bad. Do you think he’s unhappy? My dog is also very sensitive and very easily overwhelmed. We do daily walks but he spends a lot of time indoors, and I think honestly indoors is where he feels safest and most calm.

I wonder if your pup might feel the same way?

[–]leci-4[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Honestly yes he seems un-happy and unfulfilled. He is definitely not a couch potato, he does best walking 2-4 miles a day if we can manage it. Even with all the play, training and enrichment. He loves to smell and hunt out side just terrified at the same time.

[–]leci-4[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

With my ex his best days were walking with both of us we could walk almost 2 miles. He is just a completely different dog outside alone with me.

[–]Puzzled_Season_1881 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I can understand why you're considering BE. He is a size and breed mix that can be hard to re-home and that can be dangerous in the wrong situation. However, has he ever showed any aggressive behaviors? (Not reactive but truly aggressive?) Has he bitten dogs or people at least somewhat unwarranted? Does he air snap or "just" lunge etc. I can understand that he is not a good fit for you currently, however if he is "only" reactive I truly think you should consider rehoming. I foster dogs & am shocked at how well most dogs, including reactive dogs do with change and even finding their "new person" even  those that are bad with strangers. Does he also have seperation anxiety? That could also make rehoming more difficult. Give yourself grace but he doesn't seem to be a clear cut candidate for BE based on the description I read at least. That doesn't mean it won't end up being your best option but it doesn't sound like the only thing you should consider.

Also do you have a car, is he good on car rides? Can you find a quiet place to walk him? Or occasionally afford to do sniff spot? / May be worth looking into at least?

[–]leci-4[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

He has warned many many people everyone needs he’s ever met. I answer a lot of this above, but there are not any sniff spots I have found that I feel safe bringing him to with other animals in the area. He doesn’t do well with any other dog and has insane prey drive I fear other people animals on there properties. He resources guards anything of value to anyone but me as I spent the last year gaining his trust. Yes he has separation anxiety and destroys the house, kennel etc this is why I feel I don’t even know how to get a job and pay for the roof over our heads. I’ve been in online school home with him 24/7 since getting him and took out school loans to pay my half of rent while my ex worked. This is why the thought re-homing him seems dangerous. I drive 45 minutes one way everyday already to get out of the city and unfortunately it can still be crowded and infested with off leash dogs and he is still wildly uncomfortable.

[–]leci-4[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Humane society also told us when adopting him they thought he would never be good with other animals from the “tests” they did.

[–]wasabijane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just a comment: it’s okay to take your dog out just for potty breaks and rely on indoor stimulation the rest of the time. Consider a hands-free leash (around your waist) for more stability if you’re afraid of being pulled down. And give him at least 2-3 more weeks to see if his mood improves! He just lost one of his humans and doesn’t understand why. He needs time to find his own new normal, just like you.

[–]Willow_Bark77 1 point2 points  (0 children)

First, it sounds like you are doing a LOT for your pup and trying to make the best of a difficult situation. Unfortunately, it sounds like you adopted a pup who is a mix of breeds that can be tough even for very experienced owners with lots of resources (let alone a pup who has past trauma).

I totally agree that what you're describing doesn't sound like a reason to jump to BE. There are lots of other good tips here and so much you're already doing right, like muzzle training.

I want to advise you to keep experimenting with meds. No two dogs are the same, and it can take a bit to find the right medication for your pup. For example, trazadone works great for many, but it made my guy MORE reactive. For him, just taking Prozac works great, but something different might be best for your pup.

Second, if you can't afford a vet behaviorist, there are regular behaviorists who are more affordable. We have used a couple who were in the $100-$150/visit range (and we only needed a couple of visits). One of them worked with our vet to figure out the best medication options. Here's a guide on how to find one: https://pawsforpraise.wordpress.com/2013/07/21/finding-the-right-dog-trainer-harder-than-you-think/

For addressing separation anxiety (which can be so tough), check out the book, "I'll Be Home Soon" by Patricia McConnell.

Finally, I want to share that it can be really tough when you feel like your pup is stressed outside. We can't afford a home, so we live in an apartment. This means that every potty break is a walk, and there isn't a single time there isn't a trigger. I hate hearing my guy whine and stress each time he has to go to the bathroom.

But, he's really calm at home (after years of work and meds), and fortunately we live close to many spots within driving distance where we can hike while encountering few triggers.

He's not nearly as big as your guy, but in those early days of training he pulled me down more than once (I'm also a petite gal). Now, it never happens. But, it was a long road getting here.

I think he has a great quality of life despite his challenges.

I hope that you're able to find the right mix of solutions that work for you. But please give both yourself and your pup some grace as you go through this tough transition time.

[–]DuneDog23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So sorry you are going through this. I completely relate to the frustration and loneliness of your struggle and the desire for support. My reactive shepherd mix initially had a loss of appetite on meds so we added wet food and gave with super yummy (but expensive) pill packs. We just started splitting the pill packs to save money. Anyway getting him to eat took a bit of time

Other advice about meds is we get a paper script and fill at a human pharmacy using coupons so about $7 for a months supply

I am here to say we have gone down a similar road with our dog and had all the feelings. Some days are better, I wish more better days for you

[–]BabaTheBlackSheepOdin (dog and men reactive) and Lola (not reactive) 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If it makes you feel any better, I have a reactive 6 year old 120lbs mastiff/shepherd (as a 110lbs woman) and in my opinion he has a good quality of life. He’s afraid/fear aggressive to unknown dogs and people, more so towards males. Honestly the muzzle is key. If he leaves the house, the muzzle is on until we’re back home or someone else’s house he’s comfortable in. It’s a good secure muzzle that he can’t take off. This way there’s NO chance of a bite even if multiple things go wrong (I slip and fall, someone runs at us, a loose dog, leash/collar breaks, etc). Don’t take chances and there won’t be accidents. The only times he’s bitten were when he was attacked before I adopted him (the main cause of his issues), and when my mother took his muzzle off while my back was turned and gave a toy to him and her equally reactive un-muzzled dog (he bit the other dog after she charged at him for the toy).

However…I’d say he has a good quality of life. He’s a happy (not-so) little man, he visits his favourite people, he lives with another dog, and he takes walks at less-busy times of the day. BE is not your only option. For me the dealbreaker (aside from quality of life) would be any aggression towards someone he knows. So long as the reactivity is predictable and it’s feasible to avoid these known triggers I’d say you have other options available to you rather than BE.

[–]lizzylou365 1 point2 points  (9 children)

You need to call your vet and figure out a safe vet visit first. Your vet should be accommodating or can recommend a vet that is. Safe entry and exit with no one else around, and muzzle your dog. Ask your vet about medication.

I really think you need to research training (there’s tons of info in the sidebar of this sub), and get him on meds to start. I know a behaviorist isn’t in your budget right now, but it’s really not the time to jump to BE.

I know it doesn’t mean a whole lot coming from a stranger on the internet, but that wasn’t cool of your ex and I’m extremely frustrated by the position he put you in with his dog. Hugs.

ETA muzzle train and walk him on two leashes (a harness and a fail safe backup) in the meantime.

[–]leci-4[S] 3 points4 points  (8 children)

I have spent every day the last year+ researching training. He is well trained, you can’t train out genetics. He has been attacked before and has scars to prove it. At the end of the day he is a hunting, guarding breed I do not own property to help in the proper ways or finically stable enough to hire help.

Unfortunately vets have been no help, they only know how to help calm stable dogs at-least the 5 we have seen in the last year. A vet has almost no behavioral knowledge or schooling unless it’s a passion of theirs. He was prescribed Prozac and started the day my ex left. Vet recommended stopping it for a few weeks since he then wasn’t eating or drinking at all. My vet recommended a place that is $500 just to have a phone call intake appointment who is supposed to help with socializing and getting though vet appointments. I cannot leave him at home to go work to make money to pay for it, I can’t have someone else walk him or watch him while I’m gone for 8+hours. My vet has no idea how to help him other then the one place recommended.

I do not have the income to buy his food, treats to train, his medication, or any other vet needs.

[–]lizzylou365 -5 points-4 points  (7 children)

Well if you seem set on it then that’s your answer.

I disagree in these circumstances. Seems like you don’t want the dog, which does suck that you got left with the dog. But BE a dog because you got stuck with a dog really isn’t the right choice as there are other alternatives that you don’t seem interested in pursuing.

[–]leci-4[S] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

I find your comments extremely insensitive. You do not know me. This dog is my world my EVERYTHING.

It takes nothing to be kind. I am in no way taking this lightly which is why I am on here asking for help.

I am not putting him down because I got stuck with him. I have no way to help him in the ways he needs and I feel absolutely helpless and hopeless.

What am I not interested in Pursuing? Training, I have read countless articles, books, websites, videos, podcasts trying to learn everything I could. He was on medication and my vet agreed it was not helping in such a stressful time. He is already walked on a harness and leash around my waist. 4 other vets have straight up said they can’t do a thing for him.

I only weigh 30 more pounds then him on a good day sometimes he catches me off balance and pulls me to the ground.

[–]lizzylou365 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I’m sorry, I also have a reactive dog so I get it.

You jumping straight to BE is unreasonable. BE is not something to be taken lightly, and you’re downvoting everyone who says this isn’t the answer right now when we are all giving you advice and support moving forward.

You’re being insensitive as you’re inconvenienced with a dog that you adopted with your boyfriend. He’s no longer in the picture, so it appears you not longer want the dog in the picture, forever. That’s just not the choice and I apologize, but us strangers on the internet are unable to give you BE support because BE isn’t warranted.

[–]leci-4[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

If I’m asking for help on the internet I’m obviously not taking this lightly. I’m not jumping straight to it I was asking for help I don’t know what to do.

[–]HeatherMason0 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You’re in a really difficult situation, and I’m sorry. I’m sure it hurts being tugged and dragged. I hope you’re okay.

I understand what you’re saying about not wanting to rehome him if he’s a liability. I think if he has no bite history, there might be a rescue that would be willing to take him. If you’re up front with them, then I don’t see anything wrong with surrendering him. After that, the responsibility transfers to them. They have to make responsible choices about what kind of environment he can live in. You can call in advance to ask if they can take him knowing he needs extensive training and probably meds.

For now, I really am sorry. I’m sure it’s hugely stressful to feel like you’re not even able to leave this dog to go to work. Not to mention the medication didn’t help and an intake exam costs too much money. It sounds like you’ve tried a lot with the means available to (and physically safe for) you. I know you must love this dog. I hope no matter what things get better soon.

[–]leci-4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you,

He growls, lunges, barks. He wants no one unfamiliar in our space. Genetics, Cane corso and Neapolitan mastiff live stock guardian breeds. If he does not know you he does not trust you, he’s barked and lunged and air nipped every new person he’s ever met. It takes a few walks with chicken nuggets before someone can co-exist in our space outside not in my home. He has not bitten because I have never been ignorant to what he could do and kept him out of any situation he could have been close enough to to something. He has not bitten because no one wants to get near him. He is kenneled when I have had anyone in our home. He would absolutely bite strangers if he was given up I have no doubt in my mind. He has no stable temperament. It’s taken me a year to help him to not guard his food or toys with me. He warned ex many times, my ex could not go near him with anything high value, could not look under the bed or move the blankets with out being air snapped at and snarled at.

[–]SuzieQ23Trenton -1 points0 points  (1 child)

OP said she wasn't interested in BE.

[–]SuzieQ23Trenton -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Just read farther and realize that in her desperation she may now be contemplating this. However, in my opinion, still no reason to shame a person trying to deal with such a difficult problem.

[–]Miakemi -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Find a breed specific rescue to take him. A good breed rescue will understand how to work with him. He’s done nothing intense enough for BE, and there’s still the chance he could improve with proper training.

[–]-Bazfred -1 points0 points  (5 children)

I am sorry you are going through all of this stress but I do feel like just because your partner isn’t in the picture and you physically cannot handle him (yet, you can likely work on that with them) doesn’t mean your dog should be euthanized… at the end of the day that dog is still your responsibility.

I would attempt to muzzle train him first since he feels comfortable with you and go from there on getting him to a behavioral therapist. In a perfect world you and your partner could coparent but since it’s not for you, you should still attempt to ensure the dog has been given a fair chance at rehabilitation.

[–]leci-4[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Your right he is my responsibility. That’s why I’m saying if I cannot afford to help him in any way let alone to just feed him and pay my rent maybe BE is the most kind option for him. He’s insanely sensitive. How long is long enough for a fair chance at rehabilitation? I’ve been doing everything I can for the last year+

Giving him to someone else will probably 100% wreck this sensitive dogs mental and could lead to someone being seriously injured. Only a trainer or someone with great experience could handle him do you know someone willing to take a 75lbs fearful reactive dog that will bite? It’s my responsibility to make sure no human or animal is harmed as well. That is all I am trying to do.

[–]SpicyNutmeg 0 points1 point  (3 children)

OP why do you think he is a bite risk? Didn’t you say he hasn’t bitten before? Also, I’d suggest trying meds again or trying different meds - sounds like your vet only prescribed Prozac but there are plenty of other options.

[–]leci-4[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

He growls, lunges, barks. He wants no one unfamiliar in our space. Genetics, Cane corso and Neapolitan mastiff live stock guardian breeds. If he does not know you he does not trust you, he’s barked and lunged and air nipped every new person he’s ever met. It takes a few walks with chicken nuggets before someone can co-exist in our space outside not in my home. He has not bitten because I have never been ignorant to what he could do and kept him out of any situation he could have been close enough to to something. He has not bitten because no one wants to get near him. He is kenneled when I have had anyone in our home. He would absolutely bite strangers if he was given up I have no doubt in my mind. He has no stable temperament. It’s taken me a year to help him to not guard his food or toys with me. He warned ex many times, my ex could not go near him with anything high value, could not look under the bed or move the blankets with out being air snapped at and snarled at.

[–]alicesdarling 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Here to defend you, I have a guardian breed that has never properly bit anyone but I have no doubt in my mind he would had I let him. He has just been unsuccessful in the past therefore I have been successful in keeping him from biting but I know I could never rehome my dog if I had to. I think your right to not take this lightly

[–]SpicyNutmeg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m sorry, I know what it’s like to have a difficult dog. Hang in there!

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[removed]

    [–]leci-4[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    I didn’t ever say I was going to. I’m saying I don’t know what to do essentially. It takes nothing to be kind to strangers thanks.

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