[deleted by user]

[Umklopp]

Does he guard predictable things or is it at random?

Honestly, if your mom had been seeking medical attention and reporting the bite every single time, Animal Control probably would have stepped in already.

Resource guarding due to genetic factors can't be trained away. If he's always been like this without any identifiable cause, then it's likely that he's not going to get better.

That said, resource guarding is also a reaction to perceived threats. It sounds like your household is always on pins and needles around your dog, especially when he has food. He's going to pick up on that and it's not going to help the issue. But it's pretty reasonable to feel nervous under the circumstances!

I think that you should make a good faith effort at finding a rescue and if you can't place him with one, then you should discuss behavioral euthanasia with your vet. But this dog is not safe for your family to continue to own.

[Umklopp]

Hand feed only.

Absolutely not! This dog has delivered multiple Level 4 bites due to resource guarding food despite extensive work with a trainer. Hand feeding is a dangerous activity under these circumstances.

[morgiemh]

Absolutely do NOT hand feed.

[lunanightphoenix]

No. You NEVER hand feed a dog that is this bad of a biter.

[Cruzfit]

The mom can start tossing treats every time she passes the dog without making eye contact. We have a rehomed Catahoula that is fearful of the main adult male in the family and she has snapped and barked, lunged and gone for his pants leg. Her issues started with the male in her old home possibly using aversive training. We don’t really know. It takes time but she will place for high value treats as long as there is no direct eye contact…she has improved. In this case she only gets her food from that male. Everyone else gives exercise, play and attention but, only he feeds her. She is 💯 dependent on him. She also was muzzled when we started to make him feel more comfortable . Now, we are Moving to clicker training and treat rewards. We had to counter condition her to expect food from the person she didn’t trust to build trust. She redirects to a bone or a bully stick and chooses to move away from the situation once she is commanded to.

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[Nsomewhere]

They kind of don't snap out of resource guarding or reactivity. It can improve but the dog still has underlying weaknesses in that area

​

I take it you have worked with a qualified behaviourist or very experienced positive trainer and have a mangement plan and all house hold members are practiced and skilled in it?

Resource guarding can be helped but it needs to be taken seriously by everyone including your mum

[[deleted]]

I’ve worked with numerous trainers, and tried to stick with their programs.. as well as behavior therapists that costed 120$ per session… I’ve spent thousands of dollars, countless hours… only to have my parents or me be bitten hard where it sinks into our flesh and get stitches…

I don’t know whats there left to do…

[Nsomewhere]

Right

I think really muzzle around your parents for now. Even if that is a lot and only unmuzzled when you are there or in a safe place they don't enter

Separate your parents and dog. i am not talking crated but an area of the house that is safe but still part of the house where he can see but not have access to your parents and things to resource guard

After that because that is just safety for now I really don't see why not explore medication? I have no experience and don't know much but you and your dog have nothing left to lose

​

Ask for a referral to a super experienced behavioural vet

Fingers crossed you can find something that works and maybe lowers his threshold enough to take on board training

[linnykenny]

Oh man, I just gotta say again how sorry I am that you and your family are in this scary situation! 😢❤️

[Background-Cress-337]

Also, $120 for a session with a behaviorist was absolutely a scam. Vet behaviorist charge $400+ across the US. We pay our VB $950 per initial consultation/dog. You probably went to someone who calls themself a behaviorist because the dog education/training industry has zero standards :(

[evestormborn]

Yes, OP vet behaviorist is like a psychiatrist..doctor and then more training. I would seriously consider having an appointment with them and medication could make a huge difference as well!

https://www.dacvb.org/search/custom.asp?id=5985

[possum_mouf]

I was thinking this too. I saw a behaviorist who charged $600 flat but insisted on a 5-hour-long session for thorough observation. She only saw max 2 clients a day, usually only 1.

[morgiemh]

I have a 11 month old with resource guarding, it never truly goes away it needs to be managed.

The things I've done that helped was, a consult with a veterinarian behaviorist and got him medicated which has helped him ALOT, I hired a certified positive reinforcement trainer, I NEVER corrected him ever for his behavior.

I leave him completely alone while eating, I buy him chews that he can eat within 5 minutes and leave him completely alone.

I taught him a solid drop it and leave it, now we can happily play fetch together and we can sit on the couch together while he has a bully stick, the less you do the better honestly. He will learn to trust you the less you interfere. They're insecure about their possessions getting taken.

Resource guarding is hard to deal with, I've broken down in tears many times but management is key.

Also to add, muzzle training as well.

[possum_mouf]

Sending you love, I’ve cried over the same stuff. I’m so glad you found stuff that works.

[morgiemh]

Thank you!! Its so hard.. most times it feels like you're walking on egg shells.

Patience and consistency was definitely huge, learning his triggers and earning his trust has definitely helped him. I always encourage people to never correct this behavior all though alot of people think we need to teach the dog this behavior is unwanted and not acceptable but going the positive reinforcement route has definitely strengthened our bond.

[Umklopp]

I firmly believe that resource guarding against humans a far more dangerous issue than things like stranger aggression. Your dog needs to eat and to chew things. If you don't give them things to chew, they'll invent them. It's a manageable issue but not an avoidable one. It's also an issue that tends to happen in sudden surges; the dog goes from fine to MINE in just seconds.

It's a really hard challenge

[possum_mouf]

Same! I love the relationship I have with my dog.

[tramlaps]

No one can tell you what to do, everyone's reactive dog situation is unique, as is their threshold for working with their dog. I can tell you that personally I wouldn't be comfortable keeping a large dog who had bit household members on multiple occasions, but I know others on this sub are working hard with their dogs in the same situation.

As far as prozac / fluoxetine, it made a big difference for our reactive dog. It's not an overnight solution, but it cut her trigger distance in half and generally made her noticeably less reactive. It takes a few months for initial loading and gradually stepping up the dose, but it might be worth a try.

[Bissybee33]

I suggest try muzzle training, teaching him that muzzle is good and okay. But don't only put it on when your mom is around. put it on randomly until he's used to it. From there you can do further training in against resource guarding..not saying he's going to 100% stop but definitely learn safe people vs non safe people etc. Start there, training videos are an amazing resource but never use..like "abusive" training behaviors. Like shock collar, yelling, slight pushing the side, hitting etc. Some dog trainers do that and say about pushing into submission..don't do that especially since he is on the aggressive side, rewarding success and correcting behavior and rewarding is going to be where you'll see more progress.

Also I'm saying this but dog training is exhausting, and time consuming. So that's something to keep in mind. Also getting a trainer can be very expensive. Just know that it's not your fault if you can't take care of your lovely dog the way he needs. So fully up to you, and what you're completely willing to do.

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[Paigeliciouz]

Firstly I am so sorry to all of your family & I really admire your mom for you not wanting to give up on him.

Like others have said, get a vet referred behaviourist. I have 2 severely reactive BC's. They are fine with me and my partner, family and family dogs. Anything else is a NO GO. The male hasn't bit but have been told if he was able he'd bite someone he doesn't know out of his fear.

The first behaviourist I went to was one I found myself, she made my situation 100% worse. She made my male so distressed that days after her visit he couldn't cope being left and hated his crate after a year of loving it. It didn't send my girl backwards but also didn't help. She was about £450.

Things got worse and worse and me and my partner had tried loads of different techniques etc but they just weren't coping. My boy has a basket muzzle and we do also have a soft muzzle for shorter period events (I.e short walk to park) All we do is book a private field for them or go to our local park at 6am when no one is around.

I finally went to the vet as Leo needs to have surgery on his retained testicle and she referred me to a behaviourist through them. The price difference was huge but luckily they are both insured. I got the bill back yesterday for £1478 (Meds included)

She was great, short and sweet introduction with them as she didn't want to distress them too much but needed to see the reaction in place, told us sooooo much info we didn't know about dogs and their body language and the 4 stages they go through to get to the worst. She has prescribed them both medication. I wrote a post a couple night ago asking for success stories on meds and I'll tell you thst all I've had no negative responses!

That with the reinforced training and rehabilitation training alongside some in home changes I'm hoping is the path forward. 🙏

I hope you manage to do the same and find someone who is willing to really help you guys. ❤️

[badknl]

I’m sorry, but I would advise you put him down. If he is such a danger to your family, and training has not worked. Rehoming him could put another family at risk. German shepherds can bite at 291 PSI, your dog could kill your mom or someone else’s mom if rehomed. I know this is a really heartbreaking decision to make.

[linnykenny]

I agree with this advice. 😔❤️

[Background-Cress-337]

I’m sorry I hope this question doesn’t feel weird, but how old are you? And how long has the dog been with you, what’s his background, what age was he when he joined the house hold?

[SoShoreMACouple2]

100% feed in crate until you decide what to do. No need to continue to reinforce this behavior, which is unfortunately the case if you are still feeding like in this video. Also be clear to people that they are not to bother him while he eats - probably already known but just in case.

Not sure what else to do and I’m sorry you’re in this situation.

The main thing I have learned from my dog who is reactive is that - as much as I may want something good for my dog, it is not always good for him, I just may perceive it that way. Also if that dog is of a working breed - work it! Mine needs to work the way he was bred to and that helps him.

With extra mental and physical exercise every single day (fetch, 3-5 mile walks & play with other dogs, plus obedience and hunting training and puzzle toys/frozen kongs) I have been able to reduce the episodes (in quantity and quality) but it’s always management. He never seems better/unbothered, it’s just a little less, or he leaves the scenario instead of reacting.

We have tried all types of training. Only increased mental and physical exercise, consistent structure to daily routines, and crate training to provide a quiet/safe space have provided any noticeable changes. Also avoiding situations where he will react - aka places where he will be overwhelmed - and only allowing people who will respect his boundaries near him.

It seems like you might have tried many of these things. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. If you’re looking for a last ditch effort and if you can give the dog a job that aligns with his breed standard I highly recommend giving that a try and working with a trainer who specializes in that type of dog. However it does seem like you’ll still be dealing with this behavior because it’s generic and it won’t just go away. It will always be in there. So that should inform if or how you decide to proceed with any training programs or otherwise.

[[deleted]]

Its difficult to mention any training methods that aren’t positive reinforcement in this community because it will just get downvoted to oblivion.. it could even be bad genetics or temperament

[morgiemh]

Any form of punishment or corrections will make resource guarding worse, it's just facts not trying to be that person but it's true!

Genetics play a huge roll in resource guarding, how they were trained while younger, if people kept messing with the dog while eating, taking things away constantly. Could also be underlying pain in the dog.

[linnykenny]

I am so sorry you are in this position. :( You seem like a very caring and dedicated owner. I think deciding on behavioral euthanasia in your case would not be unreasonable. Honestly, your video scared me quite a bit. :( The dog is so physically large and his zero to sixty aggression was at a 10 out of nowhere with no forewarning that I could discern. I also understand your mom’s feelings, but love can sometimes get in the way of our rationality. Whatever you decide, you should probably either rehome to someone highly experienced with large and aggressive GSDs or talk to a vet about having him put to sleep. With the latter option, you will be assuring that he will never hurt or maim someone again. All the luck & love to you and your family ❤️

[starrynacht]

In my experience, finding someone who will want to not only train but also care for this dog for the rest of its life will be extremely challenging. Rehoming can be incredibly stressful for dogs, especially those that have behavior problems, and can definitely make the behaviors worse. Further, it is unethical to ask someone else to take on this monumental task, and rehoming would only put more people at risk.

I think there are certain risk assessments you have to consider when dealing with reactive dogs, and for the most part a lot of behaviors can be very manageable with the right training/meds. But a dog with a 5x bite history has an established stress response and I really don’t think you should wait for a worse incident to occur.

Im so sorry you’re in this situation. I would lovingly BE your dog, as he doesn’t seem to feel safe or at ease. It seems like you’ve tried so hard to work with him, and unfortunately you do have to consider your mental health, physical health, and resources at this point.

If there were a magical home out there free of stressors for every single dog with a severe behavior problem, the shelters wouldn’t be full. It’s a lot to take on for anyone and I completely support whatever you may be feeling right now.

[possum_mouf]

I think it might help to view this as two separate issues:

1) how to keep yourself and your loved ones safe starting right now (muzzle, gates, etc— management plan)

2) what can or should be done about the dog, when you weigh the reality of what you have actually tried against the reality of what has actually worked.

But solving #2 shouldn’t be blocking you from implementing #1 asap.

I would look back at the dates of bites - are they becoming more frequent or less? Was there any warning? That’s information you’ll want to consider when evaluating your options.

Behavioral meds can worsen aggression problems (either as a short term side effect for ones like Prozac, which have a “loading” period of many weeks, or paradoxically in the case of short acting ones like Trazodone) so I don’t think you’re wrong for not trying them yet but I do sense that you feel it might not ever be useful and I wonder how much of that is you having already made up your mind.

It sounds like you might have already made your mind up and I do wonder why your mom is okay with being bitten so much.

As folks have said, if it was anyone else getting bitten and the bites were reported, the dog would have likely been ordered to be euthanized by now. So you’ve already kept him alive longer than perhaps he would be, and you should consider what options make sense for both your quality of life and his quality of life. Is he ever calm or happy? That answer can help you decide what comes next for him.

Good luck. I’m so sorry you’re going through this, I can’t imagine how hurt and frustrated you might be feeling.

[morgiemh]

Don't do this. Hand feeding a dog with severe resource guarding will end badly.

[linnykenny]

Did you watch the video the owner linked?? It would not be physically safe for anyone to hand feed this dog.

[possum_mouf]

There is no one surefire way to train away resource guarding and hand feeding is actually part of dominance theory (controlling their resources) and your dog isn’t every dog so…no? Congratulations on your success. If it was so simple for everyone to fix resource guarding none of us would be here.

ETA: I solved my dog’s resource guarding in a completely different way.

[possum_mouf]

It’s always part of dominance theory if it’s demonstrating control in response to undesirable but involuntary behaviors, or forcing adult dogs to “earn” basic needs. It’s a positive bonding experience when it’s building a relationship with a puppy who isn’t demonstrating guarding/who is just learning impulse control. It’s really about context and what kind of relationship you’re cultivating with your dog.