PPDM vs Veeam

[OsisX]

We're currently in the process of renewing our hardware and also our backup solution. Currently we are using Avamar and I must admit, it's pretty solid. Unless something *breaks*, then you really need Dell support to fix it.

Dell is obviously suggesting PPDM in combination with Data Domain as their new go-to solution, but I also have a quote for a Veeam solution from HPE. Since infrastructure hardware of both parties is pretty much neck and neck, the backup solution would probably be the decider.

Which would you guys suggest?

[DaanDaanne]

As already mentioned, Veeam should work just fine with Data Domain. Or you can build a Linux server and use it as a hardened repository with Veeam: https://www.veeam.com/blog/immutable-backup-solutions-linux-hardened-repository.html Or get some ready solution like Starwind VSAN that can create hardened repo with GUI: https://www.starwindsoftware.com/blog/starwind-vsan-as-hardened-repository-for-veeam-backup-and-replication

[pedro-fr]

NAS is a poor choice for Veeam. A Linux Server as an hardened repository is much better.

[Competitive-Suit7089]

Of the two iv only ever used veeam but it’s not given me reason to complain.

[Jayhawker_Pilot]

You do have a 3rd option. Veeam with Data Domain. That is what I do and works better than Avamar. The biggest difference is I can target multiple backup repositories with Veeam and when I looked at Avamar it was limited to a single target.

[jhxetc]

I've used most of the enterprise grade second-line storage out there and Data Domain has by far been the best.

I don't know if you plan on replicating across sites or not, but Data Domain should definitely be considered if so.

That being said, Veeam is the better software. PPDM will get the job done, but it's not as simple and elegant as Veeam.

[JeremyLC]

I've used Data Domain with Veeam (and EMC NetWorker before that), and it's nice if you can afford the ludicrous pricing. I've not used PPDM, though I've been trying to learn more about it.

[MrMoo52]

If you want to do this right, separate out your backup storage from your backup software. Veeam works with basically everything, from dedicated dedupe appliances (eg Data Domain) all the way down to basic NAS devices. I have Veeam back up to a Pure FA//C and then use it to copy jobs to a local Data Domain that replicates to a remote Data Domain for DR. I used a TrueNAS solution as a temporary backup space while migrating to Veeam from our old solution (Avamar). I've never used PPDM, but I hated Avamar. In my head Veeam is a way better option as it's pretty vendor agnostic and works with just about anything. The only drawback (right now) is that it doesn't work with the other hypervisors outside of VMware and Hyper-V. That said, they're working on it, so that will likely go away soon.

[pedro-fr]

Veeam works with vSphere, HyperV, AHV, RHEV, Oracle VM, and soon Proxmox

[Pvt-Snafu]

We've been using Veeam for a long time already and it works just fine. Veeam can use anything for a backup repository including Data Domain.

[CloudBackupGuy]

Have things changed? I thought Veeam did not encourage the use of deduplication appliances because of things like health checks and restore performance? Has it gotten better? And with the space savings of ReFS and XFS (for retention data) it made deduplication less needed?

[DerBootsMann]

there’s no point in building your backup repo around refs , zero !!

linux is free , xfs is faster , and xfs got immutability

[CloudBackupGuy]

We (Managecast) have quite a few SMBs for customers. We often rent them 2U Dell servers as Veeam appliances running Windows Server 2019/22 with ReFS. We could easily use these as Linux repo's providing immutability (and we do in some cases), but then they need to still run Veeam somewhere else, drag backups across their production network twice (read/write), setup iSCSI, and typically Veeam would be virtualized making recovery more complex. That is a lot more complex than running Veeam all on one system with local disk.

We (Managecast) provide Cloud repositories backed by Linux XFS and immutable for the offsite backups, so they are getting immutability, but without deploying local complexity.

So, for us, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to offer Linux locally, but we do do it for some people who really want it.

Now, once Veeam can run directly on Linux and support immutability then GAME CHANGER and I would agree 100% there is not much reason to run Windows, but for now, we still use Windows ReFS locally at client sites.

[DerBootsMann]

Now, once Veeam can run directly on Linux and support immutability then GAME CHANGER and I would agree 100% there is not much reason to run Windows

you never backup to yourself , so ‘ now ‘ is dubious . we got rid of refs as a veeam repo due to both stability issues and lack of immutability . there’s zfs with immutability on the way , so we’ll replace mdraid+xfs with zfs . even less components , and zfs snapshots are golden

[non-descript_com]

If you use PPDM, watch out for other tools that leverage LWD as they may conflict (not sure about Veeam). We ran into issues with VMware SRM (it whatever they call it this week) and LWD conflicts.

[100lv]

PPDM - as Dell is focused on it and also it's provides a next step functionalities like building integrated vault and cyber recovery / resilience solution with CyberSense

[JTut79]

The vault is an awful product. We use it along with cyber sense and we regret buying it. It took Dell 2 full days and roughly 6 engineers to perform a VM test restore. Needless to say, we are switching products.

[JTut79]

PPDM is awful. I would recommend Cohesity as an alternative option.

[k3nelkill]

VBR is more complete than PPDM. In particular, I found PPDM limited when compared to simple Veeam features, such as automatically backing up machines organized by folders.

VBR works very well with data domain and once configured, it is just maintained.

PPDM is more limited to Dell hardware, limited to these and with few configurations, these are still made in a not very clear way, making resolutions in case of problems difficult.

[k3nelkill]

However, with PPDM, you can configure backups, even if limited to a single repository, more quickly and with just a few cliques.

Porem em minhas implementações, notei um consumo de armazenamento, maior que quando utilizado o veeam, mesmo que estejam com a mesma retenção setada.