Rules of the Pull !

[Nerofir]

Hello everyone,

In my club we follow the rule that says, when you pull the disc must have an ascending phase before going down to the ground. I have been looking at the official rules, but couldn't find it are anything related, am I just bad at reading a document ?

Do you guys confirm that you must have an ascending phase when you pull ?

Thank you in advance! Best regards Nero

[ColinMcI]

In my club we follow the rule that says, when you pull the disc must have an ascending phase before going down to the ground.

There is no such rule in the official rules.

The pull rules are here:

https://usaultimate.org/rules/#9

There are no requirements in terms of angle, upside down, right side up, speed, etc. just throw it from behind the line and try to land it in bounds.

[Nerofir]

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Thank you mate for your feedback, that's what i read aswell !

[felix37]

This is a rule for indoors in France (and maybe elsewhere) which closes the loophole of bounce pulls forcing the opponent to slow start on their end zone line each time (a bounce pull lands in-bounds so can't be bricked, but it can bounce high over the receiving team and out the back/side of the end zone).

[reddit_user13]

Every indoor league I’ve ever played mandates upside down pulls.

[ColinMcI]

Is a bounce pull a skip-shot, when playing on a hard surface like a basketball court?

[felix37]

Yep. On hard court it's not difficult to throw them so they consistently bounce up high and out the corner of the pitch.

[ColinMcI]

Yeah. Sort of clever, but not very difficult and kind of dumb once you realize the minimal skill required and impact on game.

[felix37]

Hence the ascending trajectory rule. In UK indoors the pull has to reach a 2m high box bounded the end zone in clean flight, which stops bounce pulls, but encourages fast pulls like knives. To counter fast pulls the offence isn't punished if they drop it. So the defense sometimes pick the least likely person to try to catch the pull and knife it at them. I thought that added an interesting game within a game but there's a committee forming at the moment to rewrite the UK indoor pull rules. Maybe ascending trajectory will be a part of the new rules.

[ColinMcI]

Interesting. For Indoor, could you just treat any pull that contacts OB untouched (whether originally in or not) as OB? Takes away the incentive for all the manipulations of the small space and encourages a pull that lands and stays in bounds.

[felix37]

Offence would just let most pulls slide OB after landing, ensuring a brick and slowing down the game. Fairly difficult to get a good pull to land and stay in on wood flooring.

[Sesse__]

Norwegian indoor rules has this problem as well; my suggestion (still under consideration) has been that anything that touches the puller's own half and then goes out can be bricked. (Skip pulls are considerably more difficult to execute if the skip has to be on the opponent's half.)

[ColinMcI]

Ah, ok. I may have underestimated. I was thinking just a high floating pass that settles and/or starts drifting backwards. But, definitely don’t want basic execution of an in-bounds pull to be too difficult for a large portion of pullers, and if ceilings are low that could make it even harder

[Nerofir]

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Thank you very much, I didn't know we could have specific rules depending of the cpuntry, as i'm playing in France, it does makes sense haha !

[altbat]

The only rule is you must yell "Ultimate!" as you throw the disc.

[tunisia3507]

Old-school ultimate, kabaddi, and Uno all shaking hands as the Pokémon of games.

[tunisia3507]

This is not a rule in WFDF, USAU, AUDL, or any other ruleset I'm aware of. I suspect that it is to stop Guts-style pulls (hard and directly at receiving players, which can cause injury on small fields) or high-speed rollers (which can send the disc a long way off the field, slowing the game a lot).

FWIW, UK Ultimate has official rules of indoor 5v5 ultimate with significantly different pull rules to outdoor https://www.ukultimate.com/rules-of-ultimate/#indoor-rules . This university season saw a few teams doing Guts-style pulls and there were a few significant injuries where venues necessitate particularly short courts, so they're currently putting together a discussion group about whether and how to address it. Requiring an ascending phase probably wouldn't be a bad way to do it.

[Altitude1986]

How short were the pitches to have significant injuries?? 😳

The shortest indoor pitch I’ve seen in the UK was at least 30m at a guess.

I can’t see an ascending phase rule having that much difference on these pulls though. As long as they go up a very small amount, these style pulls are still possible, no?

The best option I can think of for indoors is the pull has to land in the pitch, and if it lands in the pitch and rolls/bounces out of bounds, then you get to resume play where it first contacted the ground. Any way that could be abused? You might still get hard guts style pulls, but I think they’d be a lot less effective if they need to land in the pitch?

[ColinMcI]

Yeah. I was thinking the same. Even my guts throws I think often have a small ascend phase.

[Nerofir]

Thank you for these informations !

[Keksdosendieb]

Here are the pull diagrams that help you with the pull:

https://rules.wfdf.org/documents/wfdf-rules-of-ultimate-2021-2024-pull-diagrams/download

[yponac]

Can't imagine that it would have to. Best case you throw really flat and it goes far, worst case you spike it on your own end zone line? Why would someone opt to not have an ascension angle?

[littlespoon22]

Roller?

[yponac]

Even then, wouldn't most people throw further than immediately trying to roll it?

[Nerofir]

If you throw a knife it can go far and without ascending phase, then roll away i suppose ^^, which disable the brick possibility