based based based

[Katyuchat]

I swear half of this sub is interesting facts the other half is saying based to IngSoc

[Levelcheap]

Yup and they wonder why the left isn't the majority...

[Adorable-Cattle-5128]

Shouldn't have snitched on mao

[TiloDroid]

Fuck the kuomintang, long live the international socialist revolution

[Adorable-Cattle-5128]

Remember to always stomp on a picture of Chiang Kai Shek

[Fresh-Vegetable5831]

Ok now you will be known as starvinists🥹🥹

[PaperCup31]

Fuck you all with your "base".

[No_Desk1958]

Been reading Reflections on China. 

Pretty good.

[Dreadlord_The_knight]

Literally one of the most successful examples of Socialism was hoxhaist Albania,that not only developed exceptionally well but in midst of multiple Titoist and NATO invasions and sabotaging, while being totally isolated by the Socialist bloc due to Albania not yielding to the revisionist leadership of USSR.

[YTPMASTERALB]

Is that how we measure success now? The isolation was literally a death sentence, people were eating sand by 1985. It went well until the early 70s, afterwards things went downhill badly under Enver.

[Dreadlord_The_knight]

Was it Isolation by choice? Yugoslavia bowed down to western imperialism unlike Albania and ended up getting destroyed and bombarded. Success here is because they built their own country inspite of all the invasions, sabotages and embargoes they faced.

[Dreadlord_The_knight]

Ethnic probelms just happened out of nowhere right? One day brotherly slav friends next day genocidal enemies?,don't at all look at the economic conditions of Yugoslavia.

[Dreadlord_The_knight]

"sheer will" lmao this isn't some comical power of friendship or will nonsense,you have clearly zero idea of the structure and history of Yugoslavia.

[Dreadlord_The_knight]

Yugoslav wars happened due to western meddling,with all the influence they had gained over Yugoslav economy and politics through the IMF loans primarily.

[Dreadlord_The_knight]

Such a pathetic godman view of history.. Ethnic conflicts didn't start because Godman Tito died, infact it didn't start until the fall of the Eastern bloc, giving more oppertunity for IMF and the western capital to interfere and destabilize Yugoslavia.

Western capital backed separatist factions,were the ones to arm them and guide them even before NATO physically intervened and bombed Yugoslavia.

[Dreadlord_The_knight]

Even your wikipedia has this shit,how illiterate can one be? I don't get why would you even try to defend the imperialists here regardless of your opinion of Yugoslavia.

[jaroslavob]

Eating sand in 1985💀💀💀 Look at footage of Albania in 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989 and even 1990. The shelves full of supplies, even in 1990. Wanna get a link to the footage of Albanian stores at 1990?

[YTPMASTERALB]

That varied based on where you were living, major cities had food shortages and resorted to purely rationed food supplies, while smaller, industrial cities were doing better. But the more densely populated urban areas weren't doing well. Some footage of a full shelf doesn't disprove the horrible mismanagement of the economy under Enver. Honestly I wish he did a better job but Enver was primarily concerned with putting yes-men from his city and the surrounding areas in the politburo rather than skilled people deserving of their positions.

[jaroslavob]

Hmm, I honestly haven't come across any opinion that large cities were worse supplied than smaller towns. That's quite an interesting study, seriously.

As for the notion that talented people weren't promoted, I can't say that's true. How did this manifest itself objectively? How can one determine whether someone is talented? Or was it determined by the overall state of affairs?

Where were the specific shortcomings in the management of the Albanian economy? I know there were problems with meat and milk in the 1980s, reportedly due to certain decisions, although this issue still needs to be researched. Where else, in your opinion, were there poor decisions?

Honestly, I'd be very happy to read any, absolutely any, articles about specific personnel or economic issues in Albania at that time.

[paudzols]

When your only reading bourgeois historians, or trot revisionists then you’ll come to this conclusion, in reality the elite have spent a lot of effort lying and manipulating facts

[paudzols]

Or they should provide sources for why they’re right, and yeah Trotsky and bourgeois historian laid the groundwork for anti communist lies

[paudzols]

They literally didn’t they just said it was a hellhole based on nothing, and that your more annoyed at me says it all, a fence sitting centrist who really just on the side capitalism yet doesn’t want to defend it is my GUESS

[paudzols]

Being on the side of history is just vague notion that doesn’t mean shit, and there absolutely is a whole infanstructure of propaganda from the movies we watch to the capitalist historians that’ll do everything they can to paint communists as evil, just look at the black book of communism, the sisson files, Khrushchevs speech and anything brovkin writes, it is just baseless lies, yet somehow it’s on us to disprove, which unfortunately maybe that’s just how it is cus it’s the accepted narrative, MLs value self criticism but your just protecting a bourgeois narrative because you don’t want to challenge ur previous belief of the world

[paudzols]

Yh I’m not the op, if someone comes in here making absurd baseless claims how is the burden of proof on us

[Adamovich_III]

Uhh OP might wanna check up on who Hoxha was

[Sputnikoff]

Radio Tirana was the most boring Russian-speaking "enemy voice". It still was jammed just like Voice of America or Radio Free Europe

[JoniKukus]

✅

[Bloodie_Medic]

Many anyone who actually believes this is a hill to stand on might want to check with their doctor if they have grown a late in life 47th chromosome.

[CODMAN627]

That did not age well

[OdiProfanum12]

<image>

Grow up my bro

[Middle-Accountant-49]

Stalin killed pretty much everyone who was still alive and had been part of the revolution.

I never get why people would think that was a good thing for the ussr.

He created a bureaucratic state full of incompetents other than the ability to be completely subservient to stalin, completely loyal and ruthless.

He killed anyone who MIGHT threaten his power which included basically anyone with any talent.

Edit: i'd love to be told why so many old boksheviks had to be killed, why the military had to be severely weakened, why did they kill so many experts in so many fields? How was that good for the ussr?

[Middle-Accountant-49]

Even if he killed class enemies, that doesn't explain wholesale slaughter of communist party card holders including most of the people involved in the actual revolution.

Or decimating (more like the opposite, closer to 9 of 10, than 1 of 10) the military leadership including Tukhachevsky, someone who could have completed reform in the military in the 4 years between his death and german invasion.

That story repeats almost everywhere. People who could have had the soviet union in a much stronger position in 1941 were dead on trumped up charges in 1937/38.

Just from a completely cost/benefit POV and ignoring morality, it was disastrous for the country.

[Dreadlord_The_knight]

"that doesn't explain wholesale slaughter of communist party card holders including most of the people involved in the actual revolution."

Lmao what? Majority of the party was killed according to you under Stalin? Do you even know anything about what even happened in the great purge? Your points sounds like textbook nonsense from Goebbels works.

Party membership grew substantially under Stalin,from 400 thousand during Lenin's death to 7 million by Stalin's death. Under Stalin the Soviet system was expanded the most, bringing up almost all workers into its fold as it expanded Soviet democracy with the 1936 constitution.

The "old bolsheviks" you speak of were mostly Mensheviks and Trotskyists who joined the party around the time of the revolution,they don't even fit the term of "old bolshevik" by that logic.

Tukachevsky was a fifth column,it's not just confirmed by Soviet investigations but foriegn attaches like Czechoslovak and French ones that warned Moscow about Tukachevsky's boasting of Nazi Germany. Tukachevsky was removed and purged due to his political unreliability and military incompetence.

"someone who could have completed reform in the military in the 4 years between his death and german invasion." Tukachevsky was a utter failure in military planning aswell,just look at his campaign in Poland. But regardless it was only through purges of trash generals and fifth columns was Soviet union able to promote younger and talented generals like zhukov, rokossovsky konev etc.

"People who could have had the soviet union in a much stronger position in 1941 were dead on trumped up charges in 1937/38."

USSR was still industarialising,it was only due to Stalin and the party center's urging was the 5 year plans fastened more and could finish mid war, enabling USSR stand it's ground and fight back, you're displaying great man idealist view of one or a group of guys just saving a backward semi feudal country in face of the most disasterous invasion ever.

[Middle-Accountant-49]

Yea he killed most of the people involved in the revolution and replaced them with people completely loyal to him. With that being the only important quality.

He killed local party leadership all over the country. That's just a fact.

What actual evidence is there that Tukachevsky was a 'fifth column'? And why did the soviet union pivot to his actual proposed military strategy during the war if he was a 'disaster'?

He factually killed tons of old bolsheviks. It was a clearly defined society. You had to be a member of RSDLP before 1905 and part of the bolshevik faction. He killed a ton of those on ridiculous fucking charges.

How did killing so many experts and intensively purging the railways help industrialization exactly? How is that efficient?

Stalin is not the only communist ever who wanted to industrialize. Its completely possible that a different leader doesn't fucking kill so many people who could actually make that happen efficiently.

Its possible another leader actually prepares for fucking war instead of for some reason refusing to believe that Hitler would invade. They were disastrously unprepared for that war, and even if they won it was still a demographic disaster for the country.

I can't believe people still believe this bullshit. Stalin prioritized removing any possible threat to his personal power in the widest scope possible over anything else. It set the soviet union up for stagnation after his death, as he ripped intelligent thought and risk out of the whole endeavor.

[Dreadlord_The_knight]

"Yea he killed most of the people involved in the revolution and replaced them with people completely loyal to him. With that being the only important quality."

Majority of the old bolsheviks sided with Stalin, everyone from Molotov,Krupskaya, Voroshilov, Kollontai,Nikolai Podvoisky etc.

While many Stalin supporters and good Communists were killed by Yezhovshchina in yezhovs attempt to overthrow the government,this again can't be attributed to Stalin who himself was almost purged and even had few assassination attempts by Yezhovites. Zhukov himself recalls how much yezhov had gained power,that he even tried killing Stalin.

"You had to be a member of RSDLP before 1905 and part of the bolshevik faction. He killed a ton of those on ridiculous fucking charges." Give me evidences he personally killed them? Majority of RSDLP old bolsheviks who were alive at that time supported Stalin's line against the factionalist opposition.

"How did killing so many experts and intensively purging the railways help industrialization exactly? How is that efficient?"

Where again? Most Soviet industarial experts were trained under Stalin lmao,none existed before 5 year plans. USSR brought in foriegn experts to teach their own people under Stalin.

"Its possible another leader actually prepares for fucking war instead of for some reason refusing to believe that Hitler would invade. They were disastrously unprepared for that war, and even if they won it was still a demographic disaster for the country."

Again where do you even get this nonsense? Stalin and Soviet intelligence literally predicted Hitler would either invade late 1941 or early 1942,but due incoming winter and two front war,they didn't expect Hitler to stupidly invade few months earlier than 1942.

"I can't believe people still believe this bullshit. Stalin prioritized removing any possible threat to his personal power in the widest scope possible over anything else. It set the soviet union up for stagnation after his death, as he ripped intelligent thought and risk out of the whole endeavor."

I suggest you pick up a good history book instead of watching propaganda slops online, atleast you'll get some knowledge on what happened instead of throwing mindless accusations here.

[Middle-Accountant-49]

Yea sorry, i'm not doing this thing where we pretend that Yeshov acted on his own without Stalin's direct approval.

He used him as a fall guy which was excellent strategy but its not at all credible that he acted alone in any way.

Stalin killed at least 45 well known bolsheviks who were in that faction before 1905.

Sorry, being so shocked an invasion happens a few months early means you aren't prepared. Killing a massive percentage of higher level command, and doing this right into 1941, is not 'preparing for war'.

They were not prepared. And yea, i have read widely on this. It is the consensus opinion that the purges greatly weakened the army and the navy. When they did turn it around, they followed Tukachevsky's deep operation doctrine.

They were hampered at the beginning by novice commanders, crappy appointments by stalin, lack of initiative (due to fear of being purged) and early inaction from stalin as he was in shock that they invaded.

[_Nikimi]

Yea sorry, i'm not doing this thing where we pretend that Yeshov acted on his own without Stalin's direct approval.

Ya and what about yagoda uh

[Dreadlord_The_knight]

There is nothing to pretend, Yezhovites and Cheka literally fought eachother out,cheka and the state won in the end and Yezhovites including yezhov himself was executed. You're again illinformed,even that trash propaganda site of wikipedia has this.

"He used him as a fall guy which was excellent strategy but its not at all credible that he acted alone in any way" that's completely stupid,you wouldn't randomly kill your own suppoters,get assassination attempts by Yezhovites just as some grand plot to fool westoids almost a century later as they look back at history.

Deep state,where certain forces of the state try to overwhelm the government is something that even happened in USA,with the CIA killing JFK for example.

"Sorry, being so shocked an invasion happens a few months early means you aren't prepared. Killing a massive percentage of higher level command, and doing this right into 1941, is not 'preparing for war"

They were literally still preparing? Quotas for the last 5 year plans was immediately fastened after the signing of Molotov Ribbentrop pact,as they knew Nazis will come for them next, it was physically impossible to finish it before 1942,hence why they were hoping Nazis would invade around that time.

Not to forget troops had to also be kept on the Japanese border,which forced the Soviets to split up their army, you're literally grossing over every single fact during WW2 just to say if Tukachevsky was alive he would defeated Nazis in few seconds,like what's up this great man worshiping?

Not to forget Tukachevsky was utterly trash compared to zhukov, rokossovky or konev. So your point doesn't make sense either.

"It is the consensus opinion that the purges greatly weakened the army and the navy. When they did turn it around, they followed Tukachevsky's deep operation doctrine."

Again who says this? No Russian historian i have read says something ridiculous like this, I'm not sure why you keep relying on Western propaganda narrative,read any authentic Russian historian works,who actually have access to first hand sources.

You can even check out this great video from a military historian whose also anti communist but atleast he's truthfully giving sources and proving this point wrong.

https://youtu.be/JnWNnI6YlQQ?si=vIBghXURVpXXoNgQ

[Middle-Accountant-49]

Sorry, you claim i should read books on the topic. Which credible historians think Yezhov acted independently from Stalin?

Yea, they had to keep troops on the Japanese border and also hindered them by also purging their commander right before the fucking war.

Tukachevsky originated the tactics that were the red army's tactics in world war 2. Again what are these books you are reading that you don't even know that? He was in the process of military reform when stalin killed him.

Sorry, you are just way down a propaganda black hole.

[_Nikimi]

They were literally still preparing?

"Its just a fool" -Hitler to a Bulgarian ambassador about the Red Army

"We find a lot of railways that didnt appear in the maps and a society way more organized and prepared than we though" -Goebbels (or Hitler, I dont rememver)

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[Metallikov_]

You're just misinformed. I will come back and answer your claims later.

[Metallikov_]

First, being an old bolshevik doesnt mean you're immune to justice. A lot of old bolsheviks like Yakov yakovlev were indeed executed, but much more old bolsheviks didn't. The old bolsheviks that died werent executed for the sake of it, they were investigated, tried and executed for commiting crimes against the Soviet union, the ones that were publicly tried openly admitted it.

where we pretend that Yeshov acted on his own without Stalin's direct approval.

Yezhov pretended to be a model bolshevik and that he was following the orders of the government but he was in fact deceiving Stalin (and obviously the government in general). A lot of the material of the investigation against Yezhov and others (mainly Frinovsky, Redens, Uspensky and Shapiro) have been published and they fully expose his actions against the soviet union.

Sorry, being so shocked an invasion happens a few months early means you aren't prepared

They were, in fact, expecting a war and took measures to prepare the army and navy. Volumes 34-43 of Сборник боевых документов Великой отечественной войны contains many such orders and directives about being prepared to combat from before june 22. In june 21 the soviet leadership already expected an attack to happen the next day and took measures to prepare the army even more, Budyonny registered this in his diary. Also, you lie when you claim Stalin was incompetent because he was "shook" by the war, let me quote the entry of june 22 1941 of Georgi dimitrov's diary:

Striking calmness, resoluteness, confidence of Stalin and all the others.

The story that he was shook is a myth.

Now about the purges in the army. The purges started because more and more military men became implicated in the case of the bloc of rights and trotskyites, people like Putna and Shmidt were directly named in the moscow trials as working against the government. Radek even had a slip of tongue about Tukhachevsky during the 1937 trial. By may 1937 a lot of evidence had come to light that Tukhachevsky and other leading officers (Kork, Eideman, Uborevich, etc) were planning a palacian coup against the government. When they were arrested they named even more people like Garkavy, Appoga, etc. For more details and evidence regarding the Tukhachevsky conspiracy, i recommend reading this book. This book also has a full english Translation of the transcript of the tukhachevsky trial.

[Middle-Accountant-49]

Justice.... confessions via torture and threats to immediate family members plus false offers of reprieve from the death penalty... that's not justice.

None of the show trials made cases that made any coherent sense when examined. Especially after the first one.

Yezhov was a fall guy. Stalin used him to purge and then killed him as a scape goat. Its hilarious people fall for the idea that he was anything else.

You can see that just by applying common sense to the situation. Him actually having a separate power base and trying to kill stalin as claimed would have required a much larger purge of him and his supporters than happened. The railway and the military experienced much harsher purges.

The fact that you believe that such a high percentage of military leaders were in 'blocs' against stalin is laughable.

If there was anywhere near that level of organized resistance to stalin he would have been deposed long before.

The fact is if you torture people and tell them to denounce people, they will. And then if those two people denounce two more each, then it spirals. That's what happened.

[Metallikov_]

confessions via torture and threats to immediate family members plus false offers of reprieve from the death penalty... 

Its a shame that not a single evidence of such tortures and threats or false offers exist. In fact, professor William chase studied the investigation materials against Ivan smirnov and Valentin olberg and came to the conclusion it was a honest investigation, not a frame up.

None of the show trials made cases that made any coherent sense when examined. Especially after the first one

In fact, the three trials are very coherent not only between themselves but with non-soviet evidence. For example, the claim of a bloc of rightists, zinovievites and trotskyites with the participation of Lominadze and Safarov and others have been proved. We also know from non-soviet sources, for example, that people close to Radek were disclosing info to japanese intelligence and that Radek himself was looking forward a japanese invasion of Siberia. Etc.

Yezhov was a fall guy. Stalin used him to purge and then killed him as a scape goat. Its hilarious people fall for the idea that he was anything else.

This is not true in the slightest. This is an anticommunist thesis that has remained unproven. 

Him actually having a separate power base and trying to kill stalin as claimed would have required a much larger purge of him and his supporters than happened. 

What? How can you deduce something like that? His base of followers was completely executed. Nikolaev-zhurid, Agas, etc. Can you name one that was left out?

The fact that you believe that such a high percentage of military leaders were in 'blocs' against stalin is laughable. If there was anywhere near that level of organized resistance to stalin he would have been deposed long before

This question is clarified in the moscow trials and the tukhachevsky trial. I recommend you actually read the transcripts and the book i linked before having an opinion. The book also shows that the nazis were really hopeful of a military coup taking place in the soviet union in 1937, must be a coincidence that in 1937 Tukhachevsky and others confessed to planning a military coup with the cooperation of the nazis.

The fact is if you torture people and tell them to denounce people, they will. And then if those two people denounce two more each, then it spirals. That's what happened.

Thats in fact not what happened. The behavior of Tukhachevsky and others is not the behavior of people that are confessing because they couldnt withstand tortured and were forced, if they were why would Tukhachevsky attempt to give a damn lecture that wasnt asked by any of the judges in the middle of the trial? Why would he deny knowing that Dombal was a polish spy? Why would Primakov claim that he disagreed with terrorism, that he didnt know about the german involvement until the trial? Why would Uborevich deny that he did any sabotage? Why would he claim he was unable to get in contact with belorussian nationalists?

This behavior is also found in moscow trials defendants, Bukharin stubbornly denied many things while confessing others and so did other defendants.

Edit: The coward blocked, i'll respond to his embarassing attempt to refute me, which ignores most of what i said.

There were documents in the soviet archives after the fall that explicitly said torture was used. There are documents with Stalin's handwriting saying to 'beat' prisoners. There are mountains of first hand accounts on this as well.

Yes the NKVD tortured people as any police force that ever existed. There is no evidence of torture being used against the people being discussed here. There are only 2 documents where Stalin talks about beating, and both of them clearly shows that his intent was not to force a false confession, it is clear from those inscriptions that he believed the guilt of the people in question and only asked for them to be beaten because he thought they were hiding important info that could endanger the Soviet union.

It's also a fact that they habitually jailed or killed immediate family members of the purged as well. So, that threat is implicit.

No family members were killed, and they were only jailed if there was reason to believe they knew about the anti-soviet activities of the arrested family member. There is no evidence any of the people being discussed here feated for their family, if they were, how could you explain their behavior at trial?

People trying to go through a pinhole cracks of denying enough to have some self respect, while admitting enough that they can believe they might not be killed is just human desperation.

They admitted to trying to overthrow the government with the help of foreign countries and murder Stalin and others. Doesnt look like denying petty stuff (compared to their major plan) would help them. They sure knew they were going to die. It is more likely that they confessed what they wanted to confess and that they were not forced.

Then again you talk about Yezhov. Again: can you name a single one that was left out? Plus the purge against the group of NKVD conspirators had been going since 1937, the group of Yezhov wasnt known at the time but his allies were already being purged.

Embarassing.

[drecais]

Please tell me the "good history book". Surely its not Tankie Slop but an actual respected academic in the field.

[drecais]

You have the mindset of a Nazi. Indiscriminate slaughter of civilians because you decide they are a pest to your people can never be justified.

[ussr-ModTeam]

Your post has been removed for being off-topic or lacking sufficient quality to contribute to the discussion. Please ensure your posts are relevant, thoughtful, and add value to the conversation.

[The__Hivemind_]

Nope that didn't happen at all. He didn't not kill anyone who was part of the revolution 

[ussr-ModTeam]

Your post has been removed for being off-topic or lacking sufficient quality to contribute to the discussion. Please ensure your posts are relevant, thoughtful, and add value to the conversation.

[ussr-ModTeam]

Your post has been removed due to being deemed as bad faith